MicroVision (MVIS) has emphasized its strategic pivot towards LiDAR technology and industrial market opportunities in its latest earnings call. CEO Sumit Sharma and CFO Anubhav Verma outlined the company's financial strategies, including recent convertible note financing and a proposed increase in authorized shares. The leadership team underscored their commitment to revenue generation, particularly in the industrial sector, and provided updates on the company's automotive sector engagements and product development.
Key Takeaways
- MicroVision's convertible note financing has a fixed conversion price, reflecting a premium over the recent closing price.
- CEO Sumit Sharma highlighted the company's focus on the industrial sector, with revenue expected to start generating next year.
- The company is actively engaged in seven RFQs with automotive OEMs, with projections for the automotive sector reaching annual sales of 0.5 to 1 million units in the next 4 to 7 years.
- A proposed $75 million increase in authorized shares aims to enhance financial flexibility without immediate dilution.
- The management is focusing on building strong customer relationships and delivering solutions, with less emphasis on aggressive marketing.
- The company's long-term strategy may include acquisitions, but the main focus remains on building a successful business.
Company Outlook
- MicroVision projects generating sustainable revenue from its LiDAR technology.
- The company has reaffirmed its financial guidance for 2024, with expected Q4 revenue between $5 million and $7 million.
- Annual cash burn is approximately $55 million to $60 million, which is lower than competitors.
Bearish Highlights
- Minimal near-term revenue is expected from the automotive sector due to long development cycles.
- The AR market is considered nascent and not a current focus for the company.
- ASIC development for MAVIN has been paused to align with OEM requirements.
Bullish Highlights
- MicroVision has secured a $75 million capital commitment from an institutional investor.
- The company is actively engaging with 15 top-priority industrial companies, with potential orders in the thousands.
- The industrial sector may stabilize between 50,000 to 100,000 units annually.
Misses
- A customer's decision to delay an order from Q3 to Q4 has led to an adjustment in the financial guidance for 2024.
- Revenue projections for significant industrial sales starting in 2025 have not been provided with specific guidance for next year's pricing or volumes.
Q&A Highlights
- Management clarified that terms like "sophisticated investors" were used in the context of industry language and not to diminish retail investor contributions.
- There will be no extension to the PRSU plan, emphasizing the focus on achieving a $36 share price by December 31, 2025.
- The leadership expressed confidence in the company's trajectory and potential for long-term value creation.
MicroVision's leadership has conveyed a clear message of strategic direction towards LiDAR technology and the industrial market, while ensuring financial stability and flexibility. The company's focus on prudent spending, strategic marketing, and customer engagement is poised to drive revenue growth in the coming years. With a robust capital structure in place and a commitment to shareholder value, MicroVision is positioning itself to capitalize on future opportunities in both the automotive and industrial sectors.
InvestingPro Insights
MicroVision's strategic pivot towards LiDAR technology and industrial market opportunities is reflected in its financial metrics and market performance. According to InvestingPro data, the company's revenue growth has been impressive, with a 710.44% increase over the last twelve months as of Q2 2024. This aligns with management's focus on revenue generation, particularly in the industrial sector.
However, the company faces challenges in profitability. An InvestingPro Tip indicates that MicroVision is not profitable over the last twelve months, which is consistent with the company's reported operating income margin of -967.54%. This underscores the importance of the company's efforts to generate sustainable revenue from its LiDAR technology and manage its cash burn rate.
The stock's recent performance has been volatile, with InvestingPro data showing a 13.18% decline in the past week. This volatility is highlighted by another InvestingPro Tip, which notes that the stock has taken a big hit over the last week. This may reflect investor uncertainty about the company's near-term prospects, especially given the adjusted financial guidance for 2024.
Despite these challenges, MicroVision maintains a strong balance sheet position. An InvestingPro Tip reveals that the company holds more cash than debt, which supports management's strategy for financial flexibility and potential future acquisitions.
For investors seeking a more comprehensive analysis, InvestingPro offers additional tips and insights. There are 7 more InvestingPro Tips available for MicroVision, providing a deeper understanding of the company's financial health and market position.
Full transcript - Microvision Inc (NASDAQ:MVIS) Q1 2023:
Operator: Good morning and welcome to the MicroVision Shareholder Update Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. [Operator Instructions]. Please note, this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Drew Markham. Ma’am please go ahead.
Drew Markham: Thank you, Ali. Good morning. We're glad that you've joined us for this shareholder update. On today's call are CEO, Sumit Sharma, and CFO, Anubhav Verma are pleased to answer your questions. Please keep in mind, however, that we plan to hold our regular quarterly earnings call in early November, so we will not provide any details about our third quarter 2024 financial results beyond the preliminary results that we publicly announced on Tuesday. Some of the information you'll hear in today's discussion will include forward-looking statements, including, but not limited to, statements regarding the expected benefits and implications of the recently announced convertible note financing, our cash position and financial conditions, customer and partner engagement, market landscape, opportunity and program volume and timing, product development and performance, comparisons to our competitors, product sales and future demand, business and strategic opportunities, projections of future operations and financial results; availability of funds; as well as statements containing words like intend, believe, expect, plan and other similar expressions. These statements are not guarantees of future performance. Actual results could differ materially from the future results implied or expressed in the forward-looking statements. We encourage you to review our SEC filings, including our most recently filed annual report on Form 10-K and quarterly reports on Form 10-Q. These filings describe risk factors that could cause our actual results to differ materially from those implied or expressed in our forward-looking statements. All forward-looking statements are made as of the date of this call, and except as required by law, we undertake no obligation to update this information. This conference call will be available for audio replay in the Investors section of our website. Now I'd like to turn the call over to our CEO, Sumit Sharma. Sumit?
Sumit Sharma: Good morning, everyone. And thank you, Drew. As Drew mentioned, we're excited to talk to you this morning and give you an update on this most Regis (NASDAQ:RGS) transaction and give you a lot more color on what this is about. We've had a lot of inbound questions from our investors and of course, also analysts, and we felt it was most efficient to do it in a combined call. So I'd like us to focus our questions and discussion on this transaction and perhaps other previous earnings calls, if there's anything lingering that people would like to ask because we'd like to maintain our normal schedule of updating you at the next earnings call. So with that, I'd like to turn it over to Anubhav or can start the meeting.
Anubhav Verma: Operator can you open the line for questions first.
Operator: Yeah, indeed, ladies and gentlemen, the floor is open for questions. [Operator Instructions] Okay. We have a question from Tai Bortner [ph]. Your line is live.
Unidentified Analyst: Thank you. Thanks, everybody, Sumit Sharma and Drew for taking the question. Appreciate that very much. Congratulations on the financing deal as well. I got -- I think I have four questions, so I'll try to be quick. Has the conversion price for the convertible note and determined and fixed? And if not, when do you expect that to happen?
Anubhav Verma: Thanks, this is Anubhav. Yeah. So the conversion price has been fixed at $1.56, which is 20% over the closing price of $1.33 as of Monday. There are some parts of the note -- the initial payments for which the conversion price will be set when the registration statement goes effective probably a few weeks. But yes, most of the principal of the convertible loan, the conversion price has been fixed.
Unidentified Analyst: Can you clarify that? So what does it actually mean that? If the conversion price has been fixed. But yeah, the conversion price -- you mean for the second -- for the $30 million tranche is not fixed yet. Is that what you mean?
Anubhav Verma: Well, yeah. So the $30 million tranche, obviously, is not fixed so that will be determined when the tranche is drawn. What I meant was there are some initial payments for this convertible loan, a small amount. The conversion price for that will be determined on the registration statement effective date, which will be the -- like I said in a few weeks. But the bulk of the principal part of the $45 million has been determined at $1.56.
Unidentified Analyst: So those payments are the ones that could potentially begin on January 1 of 2025.
Anubhav Verma: That's right.
Unidentified Analyst: Okay. All right. I mean it is a little confusing as to what the conversion price is, but I mean, it's confusing in that your sense that it's fixed, but yet, it isn't fixed for those payments. So Okay.
Anubhav Verma: Yeah. The reason for that, Tai was again, Hydro, which has been a very sophisticated investor during all this process with us and this -- the reason for this is, obviously, they wanted to give us flexibility. Because I think -- and this would come up in a lot of questions. Because I think they're a great financial partner because this is where all the incentives are aligned for them and MicroVision shareholders and the company. Because, like I said, this deal is a very strategic deal for us to find a partner who is equally incentivized for the stock price to build up momentum and go up from there. Because obviously, they make more returns when the stock price goes up, as you can imagine.
Unidentified Analyst: So it seems like the maximum conversion price is like, I think, $1.76, right? That's fixed. It can't go higher than that.
Anubhav Verma: Correct. That's right. $1.56, sorry, just to make sure.
Unidentified Analyst: Okay. And High Trail Capital, I understand what you just said regarding their incentives to the long-term appreciation of the MicroVision price is in line with obviously MicroVision and shareholders. Are they allowed to short the MicroVision stock?
Anubhav Verma: So here, again, I think the mechanics of the deal is important, right? So they are obviously, we're going to get the shares as the stock price converts at $1.56. And if the stock price stays below, we're obligated to pay them in cash as you would have seen in the agreement. So the reason why I think the incentive is perfectly aligned because obviously, they make -- they write -- potentially right, the upside with the shareholders because obviously, they would want to have increased returns if the stock price goes up because they are not incentivized if the stock goes down because obviously, the returns get capped at the 10% redemption premium that the notes are on. As you can imagine, their economic incentive is to hold on and ride the upside there. And for this reason, I think I would also like to draw attention to high trade DNA and obviously, their past transactions. Because again, like I said, they're a very sophisticated investor. They have affiliation with Hudson (NYSE:HUD) Bay Capital, which again, manages over $20 billion have assets under management over $20 million -- $20 billion. So as you can imagine, they have a very sophisticated DNA and their track record as well. I would encourage you and all the investors to read about their investments. For example, they did a deal with Plug Power (NASDAQ:PLUG) in 2019, similar to the fixed convertible fixed conversion price, where basically the incentive is the downside is fixed or capped, while the upside is kind of unlimited because they want to write the momentum. And that's why we believe they are a very ideal and a strategic partner. And hence, they write the upside day for enhanced returns on their investment.
Unidentified Analyst: Right. So any price at the time of redemption that's below the conversion prices, presumably, they've taken cash, which is, like you said, like 10% really over the life of the term of the note on their money. But anything above the conversion price, they're going to benefit on the upside of the stock price, right? But I guess what I was asking is, are they allowed -- I mean, it certainly incents them to have a lower conversion price, right? Because making buy stock cheaper and it certainly hurts MicroVision to have a lower price.
Sumit Sharma: But, as I mentioned that --
Anubhav Verma: That's already fixed rate. That's what yes, the price –
Unidentified Analyst: You said the redemptions that are coming up. It's not fixed yet. It will be fixed upon the issuance of the --
Sumit Sharma: It is fixed.
Anubhav Verma: No, no, No, I think, yeah, so there are some payments, which are, again, if you add up to $5.75 million principal, the first repayments. So those are not fixed as an example. So like I said, the bulk of the principal is fixed $1.56.
Unidentified Analyst: Okay. Got it. All right. Good. Okay. In your press release this week, you mentioned the heavy equipment vertical. And I guess my question is, do you consider the forklift in the AGV businesses as part of that heavy equipment vertical. And can you provide an update on --
Sumit Sharma: Yeah, among others. I think we have to have a pipeline that's deeper and there's multiple segments involved. So you look at these different segments of stuff that's ready right now, and projects that will be coming that we believe that can be converted in 2025 and having a strong balance sheet as we discussed with those customers. This is the thing that I've been saying for a year as customers that you go to, they need to have confidence that they give a big PO you can convert it. So -- now when you look at industrial, it's better. Because unlike automotive, there's -- in automotive is like four years of waiting and doing customer development for them not getting paid before revenue starts. In this case, what we're looking at is a revenue starting next year. So that's where we're very, very focused on that, and it's big enough numbers. And as you can imagine, the trust that Hytrel has quoted to us based on what we have shared with them. This was the best mechanism. Yeah, industrial space is where we're focused on for this, Next tranche of revenues.
Unidentified Analyst: Okay. All right. I appreciate that. The second part of that question was, can you provide an update on the industrial and automotive opportunities? It sounds like you're somewhat just provided an update on industrial. What about automotive?
Sumit Sharma: Well, let me give a clear update so everybody can hear it. So we've been working a lot on the industrial space. So as you imagine, we started off with the acquisition of Ibeo last year. And with that being heard at the Movil product, Movil was, of course, created by that team for the automotive space. So there was a bunch of things that automotive always has to do the kind of dissect our product, and it's not ideal products. We've invested for over a year, and we've got things done, so now we can address industrial with the same core product. And I'm sure somebody is going to ask me a little bit later in the call, so I'll cover it then what that means. So I'll give you what the dissection is and it will be interesting for all you guys to understand. But effectively, what we have now is we have a stand-alone LiDAR product where all the LiDAR can cloud data, everything comes from the LiDAR, but also the perception, which I've been talking about for a while. And this LiDAR are no longer just LiDAR. It is a full-blown hardware and software solution. So this solution through Ethernet, plug in directly to their ECU and they can tell their device in the cases of slow down, avoid this obstacle, hairs in the zone, all those things, all the alerts over the interface that we provide them, the customer interface to provide them. And in some cases, we can actually stop directly instructed in emergency situations. There's a person that just kind of jumped in front of a moving optic to send alert that would immediately solve it, right? So it all depends upon each customer what they want to do, but it all comes from the LiDAR. That's industrial partner. So that's exciting. And we continue working on the hardware is somewhat fixed. What we have to do on the hardware now is start placing the long lead items of the long silicon. And with the manufacturing partners start gearing them up for ramping up production next year with this new product with everything inside. And that's going well. I think samples are going to get ready for that now, start going out. So we feel like we're in good shape, but we have to start the ramp. On the automotive side, the RFQs are still going. And I think the best way I can describe it is that the time lines are still 2020, 2029, so nothing has moved out. But there's just so much work involved in each and every one of those. And the truth is that there's a lot of changes at the OEMs. That's the fact they're thinking about what is behind the windshield, put it in the head lamps, put it in the roofline, put it in the grill. And each and every one of these there's a bunch of work that has to be done to provide them what they need and then keep thinking about how much customization we would have to do to accommodate them and try to keep them as minimal as possible. So those keep going. Are there other RFQs, yes, other RFQs are developing. I think I was just returning from Germany and into several meetings, and they're starting to talk about the next round of RFQs for the same 2028, 2020 launch for passenger vehicles. So I expect in the next six months or so, we'll talk about additional ARPUs coming in. But the thing that all of us remember, automotive is a long cycle, and it will remain a long cycle. There is no fast revenues coming from that. There are some NREs that come in, but it's minimal compared to what we end up spending, and we have to wait many, many years. So industrial is very important to us as a company and all the shareholders. We need to get this survey started and focus on this because this is a bridge. This is a very important bridge that we have to convert.
Unidentified Analyst: Okay. Thank you for that. And last question, do you expect to wait until the Annual Shareholders' meeting to seek shareholder approval of the $75 million share increase that you -- that was outlined in the convertible note documents.
Anubhav Verma: This is -- yeah. Go ahead. Got it. So I was going to take that question. So yes, I think we're going to stick to our cadence because, again, like I said, the intent behind this is -- so maybe I'll give you a few data points. So obviously, as you recall, as of June 30, 10-Q, our outstanding share count is approximately 210 million. So what sort of gives you an indication or an idea that we have been very prudent in using the share count that was authorized in the last annual shareholder meeting about two years ago? So there is that. The second point I would like to you to sort of appreciate it because again, now we have sophisticated investors or you can call them smart money or institutional investors with a track record. So obviously, any company, it's in the benefit of shareholders to have a higher share count. Not to draw that but to just have as a firepower so that obviously the company can engage in transactions or obviously it’s beneficial for the company overall. And hence that was the reason why, this number was inserted in the document. So we -- this obviously is a -- this unlocked the second tranche of the 75 million convertible note. But again, this was, again, part of the strategy that Hydrail wants us to become a mature public company to have higher share -- authorized share count, so just so that we don't have to keep going back to the shareholders. So I think that's why it's important to sort of appreciate why having a higher share count or authorized share count is in the benefit of the company despite the fact that we may not end up using it, right? So -- and that's why I think the numbers as of last quarter, second quarter sort of highlights at how judicious the company has been in making sure the dilution is controlled. And this is actually one of the reasons why this deal actually makes a lot of strategic sense because this is non-dilutive to a very heavy extent, as I described, the mechanics of it because the bulk of the payments as I mentioned earlier, are going to be paid through cash that's going to come in next year from the revenue streams that we expect to start ramping up.
Unidentified Analyst: Okay. So, I appreciate the color. I certainly understand the need for the additional authorized shares, right? But it sounds like as of now, and I know it can change, you're planning to wait until the ASM to seek that approval.
Anubhav Verma: That's right. That's exactly right. So we will wait for the cadence because, again, like I said, we just want to have a regular cadence. Again, a mature public company, and that's sort of why I was giving you the color that because that's what Hydrail trust in the company has been based on. And I'm going to talk about it in a few more questions that we have received along the way.
Unidentified Analyst: Okay. Thanks so much for my questions. I look forward to hearing from you guys in a few weeks. So, thanks. Appreciate it.
Operator: Thank you. Our next question is coming from Reed Keller [ph]. Reed Keller, your line is live
Unidentified Analyst: Hi there, Sumit. And hi there, Anubhav. Thanks for taking my call. I actually, so my call -- my question was in relation to marketing and to the public reception of the company. I had submitted to that before. I hope that's okay. I know that's so a different topic.
Anubhav Verma: Okay.
Unidentified Analyst: Great. Yeah, so one thing that I think some investors have noticed is that we tend to be somewhat sort of conspicuously committed in some wrap-ups of the industry, you'll see analysts talking about the LiDAR business, other companies that are doing things in the space. And I find and I think of the shareholder line that [Indiscernible] mentioned, especially given what we did for management in relation to the product that we offer. So I guess I'm curious as to -- I mean, to what degree is that intentional or I guess, considered by management to not be a priority. Or is there something else going on behind the scenes that we don't see and to what degree does that affect negotiations when you're trying to close a deal with the OEM?
Sumit Sharma: Can you be a little bit more specific about the question? I don't think I want to get it precisely right. I don't know how long you've known me, if you ask me direct question, you're going to get a direct answer. So please don't hold back. Go for it.
Unidentified Analyst: Okay. Great. Well, I mean, I guess the question is -- when you look at MicroVision's presentation or public reception, are you happy with the level of awareness the company has, especially within the LiDAR space. Do you feel that there are -- there's room to grow in terms of how the company is seen by maybe media or industry analysts. Thank you so much.
Sumit Sharma: I understand no. I think we try to balance out so much cash. If you think about all the cash we raised. I think the question keeps coming up, you guys raise so much cash and what's going on -- everything is public, not spend it on crazy pig. We spend it on development technologies, developing partnership and going after good deals. So there is some budget for marketing. There's certainly guys we can always spend more. And different people will have different flare and you can spend more on marketing and create that flare. But if you don't have the business deals in the back end, it will not work. Let me just tell you why this industrial business will have to get into -- why is it very important for each and every one of you of why it could be something really positive. I think everybody thinks about the word LiDAR is just a box and the box does something and so on and so forth, right? And everybody sort of moved on. We really good products give you the opportunity to have high-margin business, recurring business. And that's what you really want to create. So you don't want to have one and out. So as you think about it, the way we were actually going to create our reputation in industrial is not by coring up with like big marketing. These are old companies, some of them are 100 years old, right? And they're more -- they look at you -- they want to meet us. They want to come and see our factories. They want to come see the company. They like the fact that we have such a long history being a public company. We don't spend crazy money because that's who they are, right? They don't want to see the flare and the flare would not do much. You would not excite them to accelerate any of their decisions. They want to see prudence in spending money because that's what they do, right? So I guess what you're saying that as an investor, you'd like to see like, hey, create a splash. So perhaps your stock price could be impacted by that. Great. But I think the best that I always try to make and I know we will talk about this is really is about customers, get revenue up and running, right, spend the money there right now, and we'll have other opportunities that will be given to us. So do we do more marketing? Absolutely. Would our marketing team love that I would give them a much bigger budget annually. Absolutely. I'm pretty sure they will know how to spend it. But I think we're being much more strategic about how we spend the money right now, while we're creating the bridge to the real book head, the real the real promise land for all of us is when you start getting this automotive business and not just get the automotive business, we're starting to recognize revenues from an automotive business, which is the book end. And I think we're going to talk about the book in as like you think about some of the companies in China that are just selling later in China. They're public companies as well in the U.S. So you see their numbers. You can tell that, well, once the thing that's going, it is huge. It accelerates pretty fast. So that book and won't do. But right now, where we are, I think the amount of marketing that we're doing, I think it's okay. I don't think it accelerates or decelerates our path. I think what accelerates our path is sitting with customers face-to-face, figuring out their problem and offering them a solution faster than anybody else. Does that answer your question?
Unidentified Analyst: Yeah, definitely. I appreciate that. So I mean, I guess, just to follow up, you would feel then that there's a gap maybe between the company's awareness level within the industry and the maybe public perception of where MicroVision sits in the LiDAR race.
Sumit Sharma: I can pick up the phone and I can get a meeting with any automotive OEM in Germany in the U.S., our engineers can go there, we can create visits for them. Certainly, like you know we have our great sales and BDT they've done a really great job, and made the name MicroVision relevant in the industrial space where every key account that you can imagine. They know us. I mean, I'm going to be out on the road next week with in customers here in the U.S. So I would not say that there's any impediment on awareness. There's always more you can do. And that's -- if you're thinking about in the hunting mode for additional business for 2026, you better get to know them right now. So you work on that, right? You do some campaigns and we try to figure out who those customers are and who the key decision makers are over there. And for that, we have to have the right BD folks that have already worked with those teams perhaps. So it's in their Rolodex. So if you think about that industrial industry, right, it's more about who they know. They don't look at marketing that they saw on Lincoln or some big flare that you may do at like CES that gets them there, but they don't really know how you would solve their problems. It has to be more hands on. So we spend our money, if you think about marketing, traditional marketing, think about we spend more money on BD with face-to-face visits, doing demos and doing custom development, demos for them for their platform, multiple of them. That's -- if you think about that's also marketing, right, but it's not your traditional marketing is for a customer, more of a bespoke service where I take their problem and instead of tertially showing them how we'll fix it. We spend money with our engineers to take our device, work with them and actually go to a demo on their device at no cost to them and show them how we solve their problem. So that's marketing also and that's I think more meaningful marketing spend, in my opinion at this moment.
Anubhav Verma: And Reed, if I can add one more thing, which I think you would appreciate because. Yes, that's, I think, the public side of marketing. But I think MicroVision has really come a long way with awareness amongst the financial industry as well. Because I think that's what matters because if you think about it, this is a new chapter in the history of MicroVision where an institutional investor has come in with $75 million of capital commitment. And if you look around the competition, no other company has actually been able to achieve this with one investor coming in with this chunk of capital, having placed so much trust in the company. And I think that's also evident in the fact that we're competing with all the other SPAC companies. And if you simply look at the average daily trading volume, we trade about 46 million shares a month, which is really higher than any other company except Luminar. I think that speaks volumes of how far MicroVision has come along. And I think that's why I'm really excited for Hydrail to come on board because obviously, they really ushered in a new era for MicroVision because this is really the start of a new chapter for the company.
Unidentified Analyst: Okay. That’s it for me. I appreciate the color. And thanks for taking the time. Thank you.
Sumit Sharma: Pleasure. Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. Our next question is coming from Joseph Seaborne [ph]. Your line is live.
Unidentified Analyst: Good morning. Thank you for taking my question. And I'll do my best and not try anything foolish. Gentlemen, will the product ever be placed in a forklift to ship a tractor, a caller or truck in MicroVision branding on it.
Anubhav Verma: Yeah. Absolutely.
Unidentified Analyst: Excellent. That's all I wanted to hear. Next question. Ultimately, be it near term or long term is acquisition of the company still with desired goal?
Sumit Sharma: No, here's the thing. You start and again, like I'm going to talk very generally. This is no forward looking. There's nothing, I'm not giving guidance, it's nothing, right? It's just me talking about just what all of us as shareholders have to be hopeful about. If you're a company and you endeavor to get hundreds of millions dollars worth of revenue started for yourself, recurring revenue started for yourself and put yourself in that position, you're in a pretty good place. The thing is that the other mistake the mistake that others are making, that we're not going to make has had these OpEx that cannot support that you're making $100 million, you're still losing lots of money. That doesn't make sense either. So we have to do all those things at the same time, build the right company for the right sized business, all right? If that's a successful company, it comes down to other investors. At that point, if it's going towards cash flow positive, it looks like it's going to be a sustainable company. And they have already another product in the hopper. That's going to be 5x the revenue annually in the future. People will come up with their own valuations, right? I mean I'm not going to project right now, but all of us can imagine smarter people than me and sit down and say, this is what a fair valuation would be. And here's the intrinsic value that perhaps will be and where the stock price would be. And if that excites somebody would still buy the company ahead of time. That's all those were public companies have always said, we're always up for sale. As all of you know, everybody knows. But it's not a strategy that somebody works on that. Everybody doesn't wake up one day say know what, I'm going to just get to step number one. And I'm going to check out to the first chance I get. I mean you can't work with anything with real passion. Now that's the truth. I'll just be honest with you. Unless you want to just say you know what I'm going to build the biggest thing that somebody has ever built. So I think like your question perhaps I'm not answering it the way to your satisfaction, but it's a truthful answer. You build it so it's bigger than you can even imagine, right? Every employee that's working so hard, they're not -- they don't get up every morning saying this is a target share price. That's not how they work. These guys in our company that work hard is they want to be the biggest thing that anybody saw in this space. They want to solve that. And how big the company will be, nobody can manage. And whenever they think they can imagine number, they take something bigger, and that's what's great about the people that work in the company. So is it a strategy? No, I think it was a strategy that we would talk about it at our earnings call, the Board has decided that as a go-forward strategy. But that's always on the table. Anybody can make that claim. But of course, we continue to build it as big as possible, it could be as fast as possible.
Unidentified Analyst: Biggest possible fast as possible, sounds very good to me. So thank you so much for that. This is going to be my last one. But as we are now within -- well within previously stated time lines for revenue-producing dealers and the funding runway now secured, can we expect more exciting weeks like this one as we move to close out 2024.
Sumit Sharma: I think we're hyper focused on what the fact we're focused on for years now is to get sustainable revenue started. I think Anubhav is going to talk a little bit about the pre-release perhaps. I think there's a question that somebody shy to ask live, but they have submitted it. That's I'll let him talk about that. But I think we focus on revenue. And that's really the only thing that we all focus on right now. We have enough technology. We have great engineers. It's time for us to get revenues and not just revenues, but revenues are sustainable, and we can all see why this flows at better just move than anything else.
Unidentified Analyst: Awesome. Thank you so much, gentlemen.
Operator: Thank you. Our next question is coming from Adam Jones [ph]. Adam your line is live.
Unidentified Analyst: Hey, Sumit. How are you doing?
Sumit Sharma: Hey, Adam.
Unidentified Analyst: So I actually want to circle back because you mentioned a solution plugging into the system, and I want to ask you basically your overview of the state of the sector because there's probably no one better to give us that than you. But I hope you bear with me for a second because I kind of want to set it up at a little context, but maybe sharpens your answer. So we all get decisions are pushing out. It's a long-term plan. But in the context of that, things are constantly evolving. There's cost engineering in play. It's not just with ADAS or autonomy. It's throughout the OEM business structure. Our two parameters seems to be changing dynamic view early on. It seemed like it was in play on every RFQ now that seems to be evolving somewhat. And then concurrently to make perceptions even more complicated. You have companies like Waymo that are achieving higher level autonomy showing it can be successful as a mobility business at scale. They're expressing a desire to be in showrooms. We're seeing like higher resolution camera solutions now that are being pitched as good enough or more also being able to plug into the system, some of the aftermarket. There's cost engineering benefits to that. So the overview I'm hoping to get is where does -- in this whole sea of what's going on in the sector? Where does one plant a flag, like what can we rely on and maybe get some updated context for how your plantings are flagged in this environment?
Sumit Sharma: So I think that's -- I'm going to start answering, so I picked a couple of points. And if I missed some of your questions, please pause me and ask the question again, right, because I'm probably sure that I'm going to start talking for get some parts of your question.
Unidentified Analyst: No worries. You got it.
Sumit Sharma: So let me start with the context for us. It's very, very important. And let's start with all of us understanding what our product is and what OEMs do incorrectly to screw up our product that causes company harm. They don't do intentionally, but they just don't realize it, right? So this is a very important context. And this applies to also be pretty much this is what happened to them as well. And this will happen to other companies as well. So technically speaking, if you think about LiDAR, it's a measurement device. All it does is fire a laser, collect the data, speed of life, tells you time of flight. Our job is to make a LiDAR that is as cheap as possible and is reproducible, meaning that it can achieve scale if somebody came to the door. Steering systems with glass prism spinning. This is what Scala was. This is what some of the other companies are shipping. Yeah, they ship in volume, but they're not scalable. They're [indiscernible] vibration, all the stuff that any engineer will tell you, it's there. But they're available, so they keep using them, but guess who have no OEM is scaling them up. MEMS was designed for steering a laser beam. I mean think about DLP has got multiple MEMS. It's never a problem. So Maven will -- and I'll be indicating at some point, right, Maven is the right product guarantee. But certain things involved. For example, we were put on the path by OEM through this dynamic new LiDAR. We did it. It works great. Then they come back and say, you know what, we really have to have you go back to the single view through the entire thing. And the question was, why? Well, our software guys are used to having a structured data set coming in where they know exactly where every pixel is going to be. And that's the way that's a decision that was evolving, but that's where we are right now.
Anubhav Verma: I just want a quick piece of context on that. There was recently a Ford (NYSE:F) CEO interview, where he talked about one of the inherent problems in the OEM system as they're -- how all the parts in the system communicate with each other, they're all different. They're like 100 different products from 100 different vendors, all speaking different languages when it comes to the system. So there is context for that in the market. Go ahead.
Sumit Sharma: Yeah, two weeks ago, I was at an OEM meeting. This was the same gentleman who I met June 19, 2018 that set us on the path of the Dana LiDAR, all right? And I've never seen it as excited about our product. I've never seen any OEM, but this guy is pretty up there, excited about our LiDAR. So that makes me happy, right, okay, we're there. But what I got him excited was we finally delivered a single do LiDAR. And we saw things in there that we have not seen from anybody else, right? So I know you guys hear a lot from them, but I'm pretty genuine about that, right? I mean I was just -- I sat there and I've told a couple of employees, like this is the guy that put us on the dynamic to lie our hat. This is the guy who knows that that's the right thing, and we did it. And now he's admitting like yes, but our internal guys have said, this is all they're going to do. So I'm so glad you guys have done this for us. So that context, right, because they make choices, their customers, you want to give them something custom, whatever they need, right? So their needs are also evolving, for example. So this is a very important context. The other important context people have to understand is if you just take the electronics of the live dock, you see this beautiful point cloud. There's a significant amount of software. So what comes from the analog side is pretty noisy. If you saw that it generally has got lots of problems in it that you can't do anything about. Then you have the software that looks at all the points live streaming and creates a beautiful image you see. And even then in that image, we can always find some defects and then we keep addressing that software to come up with this very beautiful point cloud that everybody wants to see, right? And that's -- think about that, we call it internally the sensor model, but it's a piece of software effective. It's our firmware and our software combined that sits on top of that hardware that creates a beautiful latter image. The next step in the stack is what's called in other or the LiDAR. Inside my sensor, what if I had this module call perception where I could do road boundary, road markings clustering and object identification, all those kind of things, that's called perception now. So that's a higher level of software, but it still sits inside on top of the base software that I described for the sensor model. So you can take your own sensor model, plus given the fact that you can look deeper into the analog into the noisy data, extract more information and you could do something in perception that nobody else can. So you would give them not just a LiDAR, it's no longer LiDAR. It's a LiDAR. We've got all the smart software that's in there. It's really a solution now because that hardware is already telling you what's happening in the scene. As we're sending you the point cloud, it's all telling you what's happening in the scene. And you don't have to have any kind of technical background, you can imagine for the past 15 years evolving -- I mean for 15-20 years, we've all been promised, thing called you used to be called IoT, the smart sensors that were going to change the world, but nothing really came out of it all that came out of it was some camera module technology, right, which is pretty incredible. And the best interpretation of that is in your cell phone. Now here comes a LiDAR product that's going to start doing that level of capability at high velocities. That's the real product, okay? What do the OEMs do that kind of hindered this? They saw the fact that if I had the sensor model and if I have the perception software on top of my own hardware, I will become indispensable. So they almost encourage you to break apart that software and they want to put in different places. And they do that because this way they can ultimately control you on cost because they can drive you down on cost and the software is, well, they're not going to pay the license is what it cost for you to develop it? Because one company, and because magic what the company is, they put the tower solution together, and they were very, very profitable. And they're saying never again. And as a company that spends hundreds of millions of dollars developing a product of investor money. And the only way you can get inside is by bifurcating their own solution so they can completely drive the price down. They're their own worst enemy, right? They're slowly driving the later companies into a bad place. So where do I plant our flag Adam? I keep talking about the single LiDAR solution where we are going to make the product and we're going to put it inside all our it's the money no investor has given -- my investors have did it to me, it's not been invested by industry. So we are going to take and make the product one big holistic solution. And if OEMs in the automotive space are not allowing to do get in there, industrial will, and we're going to start shipping solutions in there. Stick hundreds of thousands of units into the industrial space. That's where you are, and that's the solution everyone is going to look for. So you talk about marketing, that's the best way to market yourself. You have to completely change the perception of people of what the right product is and anybody that be in this space, if you want to win, you want to do this because those are all things you took investor money to develop, you have to go with the solution, and is actually better, cheaper for your customers. And industrial guys, they appreciate that because they don't have the massive team, the massive budgets to pay NREs or discuss with us because they don't have the massive volumes. They don't have volume annual volumes like hundreds of thousands of units, they recognize that. So they're happy to take our solution that we're going to give it. But once we get established and you think about what I call the bridge and you shift significant number of units, you kind of establish what the right product would have to be. And are you ever going to be in equal footing with OEMs? No. But what I can tell you is in the last 6 months and from the meetings that they are starting to change when they start realizing that phase people are going to have their own solution, and that's what's called the white box solution, where you have your own solution, but they want access to certain parts in there that can enable them to come up with something customer for them, but allows you to come up with your own holistic solution. I know that's a long answer, but did that cover everything.
Unidentified Analyst: Just to circle it back to the business. I guess what I'm asking is, so obviously, you've answered the way you approach business with such that you could make these kind of breakthroughs. And I guess where does that stand? I get that things are pushing out things are changing. But from a business perspective, where is the breakthrough? Where's the breakthrough coming? How do you see that?
Sumit Sharma: I think the return is going to come with the industrial business. When it's up and running, they see the solution, what they call active emergency braking, active emergency steering other features an industry are going to be the same features, but just with a different spend, and they will see that they're getting deployed. And they're going to deploy in places that, yes, there may be lower velocities than 130 kilometers an hour. But people do get her. And we will establish a -- we'll have a safety sensor. We will have our safety solution that customers are fielding. I mean that's for the type of return. But I can tell you that independent of that evidence, it is starting to turn. They're starting to realize that they cannot bifurcate everybody else's product because once it's bifurcated, their software teams cannot incorporate them into one lump and deliver a product. That's the other thing, right? Their teams are great, but they have -- I mean, as we said, there's so many different interfaces in the vehicle takes a lot of people. So they actually want a LiDAR company to start going to more of a solutions company and providing a full bond solution, but not a solution where their sensor model or the perception software has to run on an NVIDIA (NASDAQ:NVDA) or somebody else's ECU, but it really runs an ARM core processor on traditional algorithms inside the LiDAR. So the solution is coming from the piece of hardware they're going to buy. It's starting to happen already. But again, so I think by the time that ’28-‘29 launches will happen, this is -- this will be the state of the LiDAR products you'll see. And there will be the companies that provide the company that will be the strongest business solution, I'm convinced of that.
Unidentified Analyst: So they're going to see it practically use industrially. And obviously, probably still be in some of the same positions they're in now where their own teams aren't quite getting there. So hopefully, that pushes us over the top. Is that kind of what I'm hearing?
Sumit Sharma: That's right. You've got to get investors going because if that's now running the business, I have an OpEx, I'm successful and they're saying, you know what, I want to break your software part and give you this say, great, we'll do that. You can give me an RE because you're breaking my business model. Right now, none of the lighter companies have demonstrated the business model because all of us try to do is to make them happy, and we're willing to bifurcate anything for them, right? And we take on, engineers working on it, delivering no revenue comes in, they slide out, they owe nothing. They take no risk, right? But if I have a business model that works in an industry, and I got revenues, right? And I'm running sustainably, I'm able to definitely give them the technology, they'll see that. But if they want it in a different way, a white box solution, then, of course, it's going to expected to pay. So again, it's not so simple, we're sitting on a high hill there, Adam that we can just say, well, take it or leave it, right? We're always going to work with them always. But at some point ending the level of development they ask.
Unidentified Analyst: Yeah. And in some ways, it's a similar solution. So it all makes sense that it would be a natural path to scale. I just want to circle back to Waymo for a second, who's suddenly become a lot more visible in what they're doing. They're in an extreme cost engineering mode with trying to get their costs down, including LiDAR. Are you seeing them as possible customers at this point, some of these purchasing utility companies?
Sumit Sharma: I think those are going to be there, but I think their time lines are further out. And it's just like the OEMs are towards the end of the decade. So like anything else, we have solutions, we promote them. We engage with them. I think when you talk about those kind of companies, right, the software that they're at, they are way beyond perception. They have great software engineers. And so the perception we provide, right, that's part of their stack. They're just looking for a LiDAR up to the sensor model standpoint. That does significantly more, right? So the architecture of those vehicles is significantly for Level 4 and high is significantly different than the architecture for Level 3 and lower ADAS features that the traditional OEMs are working on. But yeah, I think do I see them in car absolutely, but they are much higher horizon companies.
Unidentified Analyst: Yeah, you just answered another one of my questions because I was wondering whether it was being -- whether what they're doing is being reverse engineered down to Level 2, 3, but evidently, you're saying it's not.
Sumit Sharma: No two different islands. Always those two different islands.
Unidentified Analyst: Since they are essentially would be a hardware-only customer, is that business we are pursuing now? Are we trying to make inroads there now?
Sumit Sharma: No. I think we always make inroads, right? But like my job is to make -- try to make inroads anywhere possible. But the way I would think about it is at peak, what volume you're going to buy, what my ASP could be with them, how a software provider and how many people do we need to sustain that and cannot build the business, right? So I mean, we have to switch gears. I mean, I love being an engineer, I going to lever did that up, right? But at some point, we have to think about this as a business, right? So I love their technology. I work there. Great case people. Awesome. But they're going to buy 5,000 units, and it's going to cost me more to sustain them. I better have other customers to subsidize that. And they don't need my subsidy. So yes, we're going to promote what we have, but we're not going to pin all our hopes on a customer like that. We have to go broader in the market and focus where is revenue coming from and who do we have to go service and what problems they have is we want to solve. So maybe like in our customer list that comes up, right, I find them exciting. I go then I'm impressed with what they do. I am actually, right? They're just some really incredible work, and they ship revenue, hardcore revenue, right? But maybe those names when we talk about them, right, it's not exciting for some investors. I'm pretty sure some investors who I'm exciting, some will not. But you know what, this is a paying customer with a real problem with real revenue, I think we should be excited about that.
Unidentified Analyst: Yeah. No, I'm actually excited about all this. Which is why I'm asking I'm good. I just -- it's -- as you know, it's just an ever-shifting environment, and there's not a lot of information and every day, some lease needs to change or get weighted differently. So one of the tough parts of investors is -- how do we stay updated. Now how do we get -- how do we keep a finger on the pulse of what's actually going on. And some of that comes directly from you. So oftentimes --
Sumit Sharma: I think we do the earnings call, and I think they're kind of more traditional. I think like the call like we're having today, right? I think theoretically, we will try to do this because I think we're really lucky that we have such passionate investors. And trust me, you guys may not understand that we talked about that often, including the board, including employees, right? You got to just as fascinate as employees. We appreciate that.
Unidentified Analyst: Cool. I have one just minor cap question and I'm done. I know you made it clear for quite a while that LiDAR is your sole focus, which is cool. And it's obviously playing out putting out nicely. I can see that. So we all can. But for whatever reason, people still like to talk about AR a lot. So -- now as the Microsoft (NASDAQ:MSFT) contract is concluded, is there -- can you put any kind of cap on that? How -- maybe how it contributed to where we are now, along with anything that either give us definitive closure or belies any future expectations? Can you wrap that in the bowl for us?
Sumit Sharma: I think you would take a scorecard. That contract was good for us in the sense that we were compelled to create things that we had never attempted before. And we had a partner that had a contract to go for. So there was a real reason to motivate ourselves to do that. There are things that we learned while we did that that was not relevant to them that has enabled for us to create the LiDAR. While we were creating the stuff, I just same, if we do this, we could probably make LiDARs as well, right? So it was definitely -- in that sense, it was good. Where we are today, if you're excited about it. I'm excited about where we are right now. It was -- again, it was part of our journey. So in that sense, that was good. Now what do I think about the AR space. I have spent quite a lot of time in the AR space. Some of you know this. And I'm passionate about it. But you know what, the AR space is going through a transformation. And the transformation is can somebody actually adopt something. So very powerful OEM launch is a product with micro LEDs, and I got some questions from a few people about that, like, okay. That's sort of resolution that's much lower at a field of view that this but they're exploring their space, creating software, they're going to come up with a better product, this is great, right? But ultimately, it is again an R&D expense that are very powerful, very rich companies taking on. This is not mass adoption yet. And at the end of the day, MicroVision Technology, what are we good at? We're very, very good at in a small form factor in a very key format, steering laser or a group of lasers very, very precisely. That will never go away. That's always going to be part of our core. So if a market ever comes up for that, yeah, of course, we'd enter it. But even now, unless you're super rich and you're willing to put billions -- tens of billions dollars behind some initiatives, it is not a mass market product yet. So wait on the side. And I can't wait for this market for the next three or four years to develop. We have ahead of us, LiDAR. Let's focus on that. Let's get revenue going, let's establish it as a company. We can always resurrect this stuff, but the market is just not ready yet. And I can tell you I read the product. I have a few friends that work there and work in a different company. I talked to them. We talked about the product just to catch up on it, right? And certainly at the point, our glasses. The number one thing is something is 100 grams somebody that wears losses and people on this call, they were glass know what I'm talking about. You want to put something worth that with 100 grams in your face on your years and on your nose sample. I think her glasses all day without that I can't work. People that wear in glass will tell you in about half the world where it classes. So you still have a long way to go before that technology becomes something that's usable. And maybe there's a use case where like the device that Microsoft has created, maybe that's the right use case. That's the right form factor, right? So there's so many variables that have to be worked out. So many different variables on the waveguide that have to be worked out before it comes to the display technology. And when that's ready, we have already demonstrated that we can deliver --
Unidentified Analyst: Microsoft has announced their discontinuing follow on too.
Sumit Sharma: That’s what was we did it, right? So in the future, somebody says, hey, I really want to try this technology. I'll go wait, those guys did it. Let's go back to them because they did work with them and did that, right? So that's the way I thinking right. We still got the better of it. We limit our exposure, we did not keep with it, hoping that more money comes from it because no big revenue actually came from it for anybody.
Unidentified Analyst: So there is a lot more revenue coming from that whole section of MicroVision's history. That's over. And now we're on to other things and perhaps on future stuff, but that's basically come to a close. Yeah.
Sumit Sharma: That is correct. Yeah.
Unidentified Analyst: Super. I now have vision pro where I can’t wear it for more than 20 minutes. So I get it. All right, thank you very much.
Sumit Sharma: Great talking to you, Adam. Thank you.
Unidentified Analyst: Yeah, same here.
Operator: I will now turn the call over to Anubhav Verma to read questions submitted from the webcast. Sir?
Anubhav Verma: Thank you. All right. So we have a long list of questions that have been submitted by investors who didn't feel comfortable asking live. So we will read it on and on their behalf and answer the questions. So we also got a few questions right this morning. So we're trying to answer as many questions as possible. So let's start with question number one. Management needs to give investors a good overview of what lies ahead, including Q4 because they just reaffirmed the financial guidance for the year 2024 of $8 million to $10 million. That would mean the Q4 revenue would have to be in the range of $5 million to $7 million. Please give us a breakdown of how they expect to arrive at that number.
Sumit Sharma: Why don't you take this one?
Anubhav Verma: So yeah, so let me take this question. So look, I think, obviously, Q3 was a little lighter than our expectations, but it was primarily because our customer, which we already have a purchase order with decided to just shift the order from Q3 to Q4. So the order came to us in October instead of September. So that was just timing from a revenue recognition standpoint. What I want everybody to understand the nature of the business and the nature of the revenue that can be accounted from a U.S. GAAP ASC 606 perspective as well. I don't mean to get all technical, but just giving you a few milestones that have to be completed before recognizing revenue. For example, we are working on custom development projects with the customer. So we already have our engineers working on them. But we can only recognize that as revenue once we get the approval from the customer. So when that approval comes in, that's when it hits the books from an accounting standpoint. And these are the ebbs and flow of the industry that we are in. And hence, that's why. So obviously, inventory sales, we recognize revenue right away when we get the purchase order. So that's a bit easier, but there are some contracts that we have specific NREs for. We are waiting for the customer approval. And once that comes in, that gets recognized as revenue. So obviously, that's what led to the shifting of the revenue from the third to the fourth quarter. And again, $5 million to $7 million, we feel good with the amount of work that's being carried out by our engineers at their site, at their facilities. And that's why we feel comfortable with this guidance on what Q4 unlocks for us. All right. Next question. I think I speak for many in that we want to believe in management technology, but it's getting harder and harder. How do you keep investors motivated, [indiscernible] wary? Sumit do you want to take that?
Sumit Sharma: Yeah, I think it's a great question. And I can assure you that the motivation that investor is looking for so do employees mean the rest of us. It's we're aligned there. I think for us, at this point, why make this that continue making this better MicroVision, while taking your time and your capital and investing with our company. I think it really comes down to where we are in our journey. It's really about revenue. We are finally at the point where I can say, you know what revenues are going to get start recognized and start going. And we've come up with a strategy that allows us to bridge the gap to something bigger. But there has to be a bigger play, right, because revenues will come in and there'll be ebbs and flows to that, the second half described, but what's a longer view of why this company is more valuable where our attention should remain. And I can just -- based on customer problems that we see and the bigger ones that can be solved, what I see ourselves in as a company is we're in this place where a solution can be provided in a very easy way for them. And you can start scaling your revenue faster than others in the market, not just LiDAR solutions, others in the market. Companies that make camera module-based technologies in industrial as well, they kind of are capped out. And they're all looking. So some of the potential customers that we always sought to are traditional companies that shipped and made money on camera module and they're looking to acquire a LiDAR from somebody, put their software on top of it, and start selling it at their products. So kind of like a white label project, okay? So that kind of tells you that there's a huge opportunity there because industrial kind of sexy. But there is trillions of dollars that flow through these businesses and there's automation, there is a significant amount. Most of the people that work in the world are working in industrial, delivering goods and services to the masses. So there's a big opportunity there. So I think that why is it becoming harder and harder, was it hard and harder because everybody kind of focuses on automotive OEM in that win. If that win happens, then that's worth something. And what I'm saying to all of us, and I say this employees and say to myself also, right, our work is more than that. We are going to win our automotive OEM business. We absolutely are. But if you win something and it's got a four to five-year wait period before revenue, just think from your standpoint, right, you will get exhausted of that, then why can't you go faster? Why aren't OEMs going faster? Their customers. They take their time. Whatever the project schedules out, you can't make them go faster and they're not funding you. So the smartest thing for us is to think about ourselves and we can transform ourselves into more traditional business where you have to think about revenues, the immediate revenues have get equal love and affection as these very strategic revenue that you're going after for the long term. And that should effectively be the reason why because once we win now, we're going to really be the last company setting in my opinion, as other later companies are looking for exits or figuring out promises they made and that they cannot deliver what happens to them. I think that's in the next six to nine months or a year, those things are going to start coming out publicly, so that will happen. And if we are left standing as a stronger company with revenues and with the strength of our balance sheet, and we still have the better product and a better business strategy to take the long-term view what the valuation would be for you, its valuation for employees is just the benefit of saying that they delivered something that solves big problems much faster. So -- and that's what motivates us. That's why we believe it's a very worthwhile place for us to continue putting on our love and passion. And I hope that excites most of the investors as well to remain with us in the company.
Anubhav Verma: Thanks, Sumit. Next question, will management look to extend the PRSU time lines as the current share price and target numbers seem largely unattainable. And are you still confident in reaching the 100% bonus management targets, which is a $36 share price by December 31, 2025.
Sumit Sharma: Yeah, there's going to be no extension to the PRSU. The current client stays the way it is. We work very, very hard. It's not just -- it's not the only incentive for us. I mean that's a good incentive to have, and we're very thankful to our generous comp committee that they want to put incentive out there. There is no changes coming to that. That's plain simple. I'm always hopeful. I'm always confident if you build those business. You have great revenues. You have good customers. You have longevity, where they show recurring revenue for years with established partners and have the opportunity to win. Really, the share price is not something that I can comment on that I can drive really comes on to all of you, the best you're going to make to our future once you start seeing results from us. So our focus, our sole focus remains on producing results that are measurable.
Anubhav Verma: Thanks, Sumit. How should investors and broader community view the recent capital raising path the company chose over the more traditional dilution methods used previously. Let me take this question. So obviously, like I said, in my earlier response that we want to control dilution and make sure that our existing shareholders sort of ride the upside and get the maximum benefit out of it. And that's why this is a great deal. But what I really want to give you is five reasons why this convertible is a good deal for us at this point in time at the company. And these are the five points I want you to sort of appreciate. I think number one is the clear lines of sight to revenue that we feel that we have that we're comfortable to take on this convertible debt that can be repaid in cash. And not expensive equity to preserve dilution. I think that's the point that I was making, what this deal does for us is it controls the dilution, and it offers the ability to repay this certain cash when we start generating revenues next year. The next point is why get this chunky capital, which, again, like I described, this is a transformational point in the history of MicroVision with one investor pouring in capital, chunky capital. What it gives us is strong balance sheet and extended runway, which makes customers feel safe in order to secure revenue streams, like. Simit described. And keep in mind, our burn rate has come down. So we're not looking to grow that burn it. But we're simply using this capital as a strength -- as a sign of strength to our customers. Really, the users' proceeds are perhaps going to be to procure some long-lead silicon items as the revenue ramps up next year. So that's what we're going to spend the proceeds on. But again, the bulk of the cash burn will remain the same and which has come down significantly, as you guys are aware, in the third quarter, there has been a sequential decline in the cash burn. Number three, what this capital raise does is, it reduces our dependence on the ATMs. And this is a strong deterrent for short sellers, right? Because obviously, it takes out the uncertainty because we have the capital now. We have secured the capital and extended the runway. So this obviously differentiates us from almost all the other LiDAR players other out in the market because we have extended runway, and we don't need to depend on the ATM as much. Number four, like I described earlier, there's a clear alignment for both Hydrail and MicroVision because they want us to perform. They want the stock price to appreciate because obviously, they make enhanced returns on top of their guaranteed returns. And that's why having a sophisticated investor in the capital structure is really strategic and beneficial for us. And I think the last point, which I think is the most important point is, because the state of the LiDAR industry is to achieve cash flow breakeven, you have to enable faster revenue growth to bridge the gap. And that's what our strategy estimate described as secure revenues from the industrial stream, while still shooting for the big automotive dream because that's where you get the volumes. That's where you get the hundreds of millions of dollars of backlog that we expect from the automotive customers to come. But until that, it's very important to achieve that accelerated revenue growth in the Industrial segment. And maybe this is a good time to sort of give you an idea of sort of what obviously was part of this process as well, which came to light. Because if you think about it, our cash burn right now is about what I've guided to is about $55 million to $60 million a year. And Luminar and all others have cash burn significantly higher. If I were to simply assume that any company needs to generate 30% gross profit to achieve cash flow breakeven that sort of gives you an idea of the top line, each LiDAR company right now have to get. And we are at the bottom of the fact. What that means is we really have to get to only $180 million to $200 million of revenue topline to get to cash flow breakeven while others have to get to significantly higher levels of revenue. And that's why to build a successful business, you have to accelerate revenue and charge your own trajectory and be the master of your own destiny, even if the automotive revenues are taking longer to ramp up is the strategy, that will be the winning strategy for this sector. Next question. With this new capital raise, do we have enough financial stability runway to acquire any concerns from the automotive companies that we are in RFP does MicroVision now satisfy the operating runway requirement for automotive OEM, so they can partner with MicroVision and award a high-volume RFP.
Sumit Sharma: I'll take this one. I'll start with this one and perhaps you can add some color because you're also involved in some of these discussions. So let me give a little context. Recently, I was having a very casual discussion with a senior member at the OEM. And this was after our meeting we're just chatting. And he's talking about like LiDAR trajectory, LiDAR cost, how China plays into it, and we're having a very good conversation. And you see something very interesting. He's like, you guys do a great job to get to this point. But our real problem is that we need all this middleware, all these interfaces, right? And you have no idea how much interfaces you have to do in software interface, you have to do to talk to a car. Your LiDAR doesn't go in. There's a bunch of software that has to be done just to make that car talk to your LiDAR, accept the data even before we do our perception or our software. I said that was great. And I, of course, was prepared for this, and I said to them, like, well, but here's our strategy, how we can do that for you. I'm not going to create it, even though we know how to create interfaces. I can actually go work with this company that has actually delivered that to you in the past, and I can actually contract them, and I can give you the middleware. And he was kind of surprised that I mentioned the name that he would be familiar with, right? But again, you have to prepare for these meetings. So I was very prepared. Then he says, "No, no, we don't like that. We really like the Tier 1s, right? The Tier 1s do a great job and they deliver. I'm like, okay, well, we have this other Tier 1 that I talked to. If you want to go that Rob, we can do that as well. Yeah, but we don't like Tier 1s because they're too expensive. So I want to just illustrate a point to you, like you guys keep asking why does it take so long? This is a great example. Even though we were completely prepared to answer the questions they have, any answer I give to guys this one individual is just not ready to make a decision. Because what his preference would be that we give it to them for free and see if they can make something out of it, right? And then they'll give you a couple of pieces of bread if you can survive. And that's just not the way because when we're giving them their big major problems that we can solve for them. They're rejected. And again, at the end of the day, you think about these OEMs as the name of the company, but there's individuals, and you have to make them happy. And even though they see the paradox in their own statements in that same 2-minute exchange, it doesn't change anything. So as you think about like questions about capital raise, connect it. This is context. It's going to take a while, even if you win, this is what takes us a long time after the award before revenue starts working with OEMs. It's just their platforms that are really complicated and their companies are really complicated and how they want to do business is really complicated. So how do you -- this context is important of what we have to read through. It's not just technical, it's the business side of it, right? But probably you can give a little bit more color on how to think about the capital is it adequate or not, how we think about it and discuss it.
Anubhav Verma: Yeah. No. I think what this capital raise does it, like I described, it helps us secure revenues from industrial vertical, and it basically helps us secure the path for the future. Because, obviously, as the stock price appreciates and I'm hopeful the markets respond positively to the revenue streams, then we obviously can raise capital with more strategic, more investors coming in. And obviously, the way I think about this is it's almost like a north star that I want all of us to get aligned to is what has happened in China, right? There are three LiDAR companies there, which right now are shipping somewhere between 500,000 to 750,000 units of LiDARs every year. Now when that is the Chinese market. Imagine when that pressure directly translates into the U.S. and the European market for the volumes to ramp up in this market catch on fire when that catches on fire, imagine the volume that's going to be. And I think that's sort of what the price is to be focused on the automotive while securing your pads through the industrial because that derisks the company. Then obviously, the company doesn't need as much capital because we are self-sustaining because of the additional revenue streams, not just entirely dependent on the auto. So really, the game is to secure these industrial revenue streams, while anybody else who is focused on solely order for now will fade out and drop out of the map and then you are there as the only company standing to capture that sea of demand from these automotive out here in the U.S. So that's sort of how I want all of us to be aligned as to why this capital raise right now solve the problem for us and basically carve out a trajectory and a task for us in the future to be successful. Next question, how many unique opportunities is MicroVision pursuing outside of automotive? These might not be formal RFQs per se, but unique use cases, types would be illuminating to understand how large that opportunity set is.
Sumit Sharma: Yeah. So I think in the industrial space, I would say there's about I mean, I would say, I mean, there's a big funnel, but I would say 15 that are prominent. And all combined, these 15 in the pipeline, I would call them top priority, right, Priority one hasn't like I think it's a metric that we talk internally that we're interacting with those companies on a weekly basis, right? We're working with them, figuring out how the group part of their solution and what is in their solution that we can do faster. Yeah. So they're in different stages, but I would call them the 15 top priority companies that we're focused on that we believe in the funnel, I guess, as the revenue -- sustainable revenues starting next year.
Anubhav Verma: Thanks, Sumit.
Sumit Sharma: Let me give some color. It's not like 15 that will only buy 100 units. We're talking about 15 that will by the multiple thousands of digit numbers that we've talked about that gets to the annual numbers. I mean we're doing a very wide margin because we don't want to talk about it yet, right? But if you think about on the high end of that number that we talked about last time. You would need to have multiple companies all buying more than 5,000 less than 10,000 units to get to that number on the conservative side. So that's what's in play.
Anubhav Verma: Next question. Multiple times MicroVision has stated the company primarily focuses on high-volume RFQs for industrial customers, do you foresee them being long term and recurring. And if so, what duration do you expect? Additionally, regarding the industrial market, how does MicroVision anticipate the volume for industrial customers compared to that of automotive customers? Can you provide any estimates for the potential volumes in both markets?
Sumit Sharma: Okay. That's a good question. I'm going to start on and then I probably will need your help on this one. So just to give you some color, let's talk about volumes, right? I think in the automotive space, you can achieve something like 0.5 million units a year, maybe like four, five years down the future, maybe seven years down the future, your annual run rate. I think in the industrial space, I think if you were somewhere north of 50,000 south of like 100,000 units a year, that's probably where you would tap out because it would take a significant amount of investment to go even higher. And it's not that you would be penetrating the industrial market with like cheaper sensors. We're better off staying with that volume, but having more and more software content. And what you don't want to make sure is like these industrial applications you're creating, but they're not -- you're shutting down high technology, you need customers that are going to adopt that. So that's a real challenge there. So the volume disparity will be there. Like one could be 1 millimeter, the other 1 to be only 100,000 this year. The ASP will be adjusted, of course, appropriately for the economy of scale. I think that's like the order mate that I'd like to give. You want to give some -- I think if people always want to model this, right? So probably you have better rate model.
Anubhav Verma: Yeah. No, I think Sumit, you pointed out correctly because the way I think about modeling this or thinking about it from a cost perspective as well, that there would be synergies down the road as well in our manufacturing capabilities when you're handling that -- those kind of volumes, right? So obviously, the volumes that Sumit is describing for the industrial space are -- I think one thing is for sure. Maybe industrial volumes will always be lower than automotive volumes just given the scale when the automotive business matures, right? And I think I gave you the book and what the Chinese LiDAR companies are already able to do. And I think when the demand here catches on fire that number is going to be significantly higher, as you can imagine, for the broader market, right? So that's sort of how at least I feel that it's going to start ramping up from about 25,000 to 30,000 units a year for the industrial and gradually build up. But it's never going to achieve the number that Sumit described, which, again, could be 0.75 million to 1 million units per year for the automotive business. Next, just management still see MicroVision as a front runner in the current automotive RSQs that are actively engaged in.
Sumit Sharma: Yeah. Actually, I do. I think from a -- so I'm going to talk about both MOVIA and MAVIN. I think this is a question that I was asked recently by an employee. And the MOVIA I'm talking about is MOVIA S, MOVIA L is, of course, focused on industrial. If you think about it, MOVIA s and MOVIA -- MAVIN do not overlap, what one does, other one does not. So they complement each other. MOVIA product, it's a maturized version of the existing MOVIA L. We'll have significantly high resolution, bigger field of view -- up to 180 field of view. And in -- while it's getting integrated into the car, the lenses that stick out, they look like camera module. So the integration into a car's body is much more seamless, right? So that's real benefit. What you sacrifice there is a range. It's probably going to have like -- we're not -- I think we don't -- we're not putting numbers out. But just imagine like 10 meters or less, something like that. So it creates a cocoon around the car and it's really for some very specific ADAS applications. Someday, it will be in the car in very, very high volume because every car will need four, so you can really create a cocoon on the car. Maybe on the other hand, forward-looking, either behind the windshield or rail or a couple of them in the headlamps or in the roof, right, whatever they want to integrate. There'll be one per car. And it's really for the long range. And it's got quite a lot of points for a second. It's got full coverage on the road for long distances in places, small detection is a big things. You can see pieces are higher on the road hundreds of meters out, those kind of things that will be very, very important. So I think from that vantage point, right, these two products, they don't really overlap, okay? Do I see an advantage in the RFPs we're in? Yeah, absolutely. And the big advantage we have right now is the quality of the point cloud that we're providing, right? There's always places that we have to improve. But once you get to that level that we are at a great place competitively from the data input they would get into their vehicles through their software. But the smaller form factor, the power, and these are the things that we're optimizing, of course, the form factor is already the smallest is going to be, and it's easier for them to integrate. So I see a strategic advantage, right, that you can provide something in a smaller form factor. The real advantage that we will have long term is if you were to get enough scale, enough business from multiple OEM to try. It's not getting to like 0.5 million units per year, for example, or more. I think it's about 0.75 million per year. There is nothing cheaper for steering system than a 200-millimeter wafer of MEMS. I don't care what anybody says. Them polishing a piece of Prism in China, putting it on a motor, spinning it really hard, bouncing the lasers off there. It will never ever, ever scale cheaper than a MEMS. So we will always have a cost advantage. So as we go into a market where cost is always the ultimate reason why they're going to pick you and you can demonstrate sustainable cost. Of course, we have a huge advantage. We have the great technology, great form factor, and we can demonstrate costs. The problem is, do they have enough volume to get to those economy scales right? And their supply chain team can do exactly what our supply chain does, which is they can sell 200-millimeter wafer cost is as they manage this cost, the plastic optics this much, they're electronic and this much. They can price it out themselves also. And then the software part is, of course, where the variable is of how good our software is and what the premium we can charge on it.
Anubhav Verma: Next question. Please update us on the seven RFQs? How close are we disclosing a deal? Why are we stuck with seven RFQs? And why is there no interest on OEMs in our offerings.
Sumit Sharma: I think the number seven has been stagnant for a while, but I think this is just the OEMs, right? They're all going through their internal processes of realigning their strategies for their vehicle platforms for the next few years. So I'll give you a great example. I think about a year ago, we were always talking about 9 RFQs. And then at the earnings call last year, I recall telling you that 1 of the OEMs has actually dropped out. And the reason they gave us was that they were aligning -- realigning the internal strategy. They had invested very heavily on the strategy that was based on EV, and they were bringing back some of that volume back to the ICE engines. And this is a bare model level issue. This was nothing to do with us. And that was the first canary in the coal mine, I recall saying that's really interesting because if they're changing strategy. This is going to have a cascading effect on all OEMs. And that's exactly what happened this year. So as you noticed, right, nobody is talking about multiple RFQs people hint at it. The discussions we've had is can you do some custom development for us in preparation for RFQ next year, and we're engaging that. So we have talked about seven RFQs. That's true and additional custom developments as a precursor to RFQ next year. So yes, I mean, technically speaking, we're in if our fuse, but there are other discussions with them that are in preparation for RFQs next year that would like us to work on. So it's not us, it's the OEM. It's not the global OEMs are realigning our strategy between ’28-‘29.
Anubhav Verma: Next question is management talked about SAG on the last call, and they are listed as a distributor on the MicroVision Web side. Will the company partner with sick on any of the potential upcoming industrial deals?
Sumit Sharma: No. SAG is something that a partnership that Ibeo had. We took it over. That's -- it's a distribution channel, I think, in Japan, if I recall correctly, and they look at some of the regions. But what we're doing here is we are going to launch this product directly after the market. This is our product. And I think the earlier question about marketing. This is more of our product marketing. We're focusing directly with customers as part of our direct sales strategy, go-to-market strategy, we're just deploying on that. I got nothing to do with our partnership with St. We've not recognized how much revenue working with them or IB has anyway. So we're going to focus our own path of becoming successful.
Anubhav Verma: Next question. Our strategic investments by OEMs are part of the conversation?
Sumit Sharma: I think there always are. I think you don't walk in looking for money. I think you walked in showing them that you have a solution that can solve the problem at certain scale. Then of course, we try to give them the opportunity to some custom thing that they want, they give them a differentiated product. And then, we are very crucial to their future, which I expect that if we were able to deliver a system to them or a solution to them would become, I think those things come back on the table. But we all have to be sort of cautious that if you go in the door with that, kind of like spook everybody, right? So that's why a strong balance sheet, running a sustainable company, having revenues from non-automotive that actually helps you win more automotive business. So that's why it's very, very important to have a very traditional way to look at it, that I'm spread across, I'm not -- I'm diversified enough that I can sustain myself. That's actually very, very important.
Anubhav Verma: Next question. Management says MOVIA remains in the automotive RF discussions. Does that mean OEMs still haven't figured out what kind of sensor configuration they want? Any color on this would be appreciated.
Sumit Sharma: For a long-range, high-speed highway pilot, MAVIN is your key products. The MOVIA S is really about slower speed maneuvering, parking urban parking, urban driving, those kind of features. So again, these are much higher level Level 3 feature perhaps even Level 4. So OEMs have a clear idea where they would use MOVIA S and where they would use MAVIN. The RFQs are primarily focused on MAVIN. There's discussions for MOVIA S for customer development for potential projects coming. But the dominant conversation that everybody is talking about is a high-speed highway pilot solution with a MAVIN star LiDAR.
Anubhav Verma: Next question. Can you give specific examples of what MicroVision employees are currently working on to resolve issues in attaining RFQs. Simply said, is there any capability being requested by the OEMs that we have not yet accomplished.
Sumit Sharma: I think we've demonstrated the core things that they want, but they have very specific each and every one of them have a specific target in mind. An example is that if I go to OEM A, and small optic perfection meaning like they want to be able to detect a small supplier at a certain distance with a certain level of accuracy, the height of the tire, so they can determine if they can drive over it or they have to move around it, right? Then I go to OEM B, and they will have the same small optic protection requirements except they would have different metrics. So if you think about it, right, and all the RFQs, what we end up doing is that we have to come up with a different version of the sensor software that each and every one of them sees their own KPIs. On top of that, of course, they want to dive deep into the technology and understand how it is developed, how it's stacked up, how they will get it. It will be a spice ready, when it gets fully qualified, are you the right partner? That's the other pillar of review that they do. It's under the quality organization, but really engineering quality that we come into. And then of course, the third pillar always is your operational footprint, how are you going to manage the supply chain because what they're recognizing is the LiDAR companies are going to be a Tier 1 supplier because none have traditional Tier 1s want to invest money. If you think about the magnitude that I've talked about in the past, after a nearly $0.25 billion or more than $200 million less than $250 million write-off that they have to do with competitors' technology, and the Gen 1 of their technology and OEMs do not even take it -- that kind of tells you right that the Tier 1s are not jumping into it. And also the Tier 1 business is changing. They are transforming as in like their going forward what the workforce is completely changing as well. So the OEMs are looking at the latter companies and are expecting us to be a Tier 1. So the third pillar, which is how you're going to manage your operations, where is your cash flow? How are you going to be sustainable business? Actually becomes very important, equally important to the technical. So I would say the first two pillars are technical. I think the third pillar has equal gravity to the first to combine. So there's really easy to see as a company that they can trust because there if you're going to be a Tier 1, there's huge expectations of you.
Anubhav Verma: Thanks, Sumit. Next question. With the current geopolitical climate, would it not be a selling point that MicroVision is an American company, Western countries may restrict certain technologies from Chinese manufacturers, adding risk to using that technology. Is this a selling point for our LiDAR? I can't figure out why there isn't already a stamp for MicroVision's technology. Let me provide some context because I think -- we have discussed this in the past earnings call as well that look, obviously, the Chinese LiDAR companies volume, which I have talked about -- they -- that's the volume that exists in China at the current adoption rate, which is clearly higher than what we have here in the U.S. given I'm pretty sure you have seen software-defined vehicles and vehicles running with LiDAR in China. So I think it's a matter of time when the demand catches on fire here because obviously, our cars have to get as sophisticated as theirs and this is coming. And I think this is sort of what's changing in the tone when the OEMs are beginning to feel the pressure because keep in mind, what has happened in the last five years, a lot of the Western OEMs invested heavily in the EV tech and they're still grappling from the investments from the losses they suffered from the slower adoption. But as the OEMs sort of find that putting back, I think they're beginning, which I think some was describing as well. They are beginning to sort of understand the importance of LiDAR and accelerating that urgency to get these technologies and features in the vehicle. So I think it's a question of when the market catches fire here, obviously, the volumes are going to be significantly higher than what we are already seeing in China from the Chinese LiDAR companies. Let's talk about revenue timing. Devon Seton camera at CES at Mobile for $5,000 per unit, and this was cheaper than other solutions. In the Q2 earnings call, management said that there was a strong potential for industrial sales starting in 2025 for 1,030,000 MOVIA units per year. Would the price Devon quoted be applicable to that level of volume? Would it be reasonable to assume that the meaningful revenue that management described would amount to between $50 million to $150 million per year?
Sumit Sharma: Yeah. I think I'm going to take this one. So first of all, I apologize, everybody. Devin is unauthorized to talk about any of this stuff. So whatever had CES and I'll take good responsibility for that. I think what we've said on the earnings calls in the past, that's the north star that everybody should orient themselves towards not comments made by CES by an employee that was not all is talk about it. So I think in, you want to read great what we talked about in the last earnings call, how people should model our industrial. Maybe it's a good quest put that in real I think --
Anubhav Verma: Yeah, I think that's right because obviously, we're -- we haven't provided guidance for next year, and we plan to do so at a regular cadence next year when we come up with our Q4 earnings call and provide the guidance for next year 2025. I think the way to think about this is, obviously, with these volumes, as you can imagine, we don't think the price would be this. It would be lower because obviously, the industrial customers are also looking for value and especially with these values -- with these volumes, they do expect us to have a lower price point. I think what is important to understand is it's a LiDAR solution. It's a hardware and a software offering. So there are levers between hardware and software and which constitute the total pricing of the LiDAR solution that's going to be shipped to the industrial customers. But like I said, the actual numbers, we plan to provide a detailed breakdown next year as part of our annual 2024 results. Next question. Have you been able to downsize MOVIA or using automobile yet?
Sumit Sharma: That's the MOVIA S product. I think we are in concept phase. As you can imagine, investing in actually developing a piece of hardware requires custom ASIC all the things that go with it, and that's a huge expense. And as we talked about in the previous earnings call, right now to win business, you have to show discipline that you can know how to become a sustainable company. And certainly, as talked about that our new financial partner, I think part of it is, there has to be some discipline on how you spend the money. You have done enough to create enough engineering I'll start monetizing it. So at the moment, the decision is not to start investing money in developing those samples. Clearly, with the MOVIA L, we can demonstrate we can do it. If there was a project that we can sign a deal, we can actually deliver it in time. So there is -- it's not PowerPoint anymore. It's PowerPoint for the whole product that is getting delivered with revenue. So I'm not so concerned about MOVIA S what was there were actual multiple or even a big enough customer project that we can sign, and that's what we work towards actively. If that happens, then yes, we would be out here in one of the calls or investor update, where we will be talking about MOVIA S and why it's important for us to start investing. But at the moment, if we have customer engagement, we will make investments. But we're going to continue focusing on revenue, getting sustainable revenues up and running.
Anubhav Verma: Next question. Can you tell us the status of the ASIC development? Is it done? And if not, when will it be done? When will the ASIC version of MAVIN be completed and the FPGA version be retired.
Sumit Sharma: Our intention was to have the ASIC version, which is called the B1 sample ready for next year. At this point, where we are, we have not started the tape-out of the ASIC and we're on pause because as you can imagine, if the plans from the OEMs are changing, the worst thing will be you go out and develop the ASIC and then they want to feature and you have to respend the Asia's a huge expense. And you never shipped enough volumes from the first expense and you would have to do a second time. So to avoid those kind of things, we really want to spend so much time talking to OEMs to understand what -- where we want to go or where they want to go and if we can go with them before we cut the ASIC to the tape-out for the, we have to do. So where we are right now is I would say we're in a whole pattern. Again, we've done ASIC in the past. We can start the ASIC at the cycle, we can finish it. We just want to make sure that everything they're asking for is in the ASIC and we don't have to re-spend the ASIC because in their mind, they have four years. They can just say, well, now you have to do this for the teacher and respend the ASIC, that enough ends up costing us a significant amount of cash and the first ASIC is not usable anymore. So we've just been very cautious money in every stuff or the way to get as much customer input as possible. And again, what I told them is, like if you do an ARC award, yes, you can do a spend. Certainly, we can do a respend of it. But without an ARC Award asking for a new feature, I start developing that, you change your mind again, I keep spending my money and there's no RFQ. But if I have RFQ, absolutely, we're going to trigger that.
Anubhav Verma: Next question. Is there any insight you could share if there would be another Investor Day like April 2022 or all shareholder meeting on any tentative scheduled for next year to consider? Let me take that question. So yes, look, I think we want to have meaningful Investor Days because if you recall, last time, we provided a peak inside the MicroVision technology and especially the IVO product that was a new acquisition back at that time. So what we want to do is we want to have meaningful investor days. And the idea is to have signed deals, and then we can provide more color as to how MicroVision is actually solving the business problem of our industrial customers. So you all can appreciate of what value MicroVision is bringing to these customers because that's how we create long-term value. So yes, so we do plan to have the Investor Day, but we want to -- we're trying to make it more meaningful. Next question. It feels like HICO Capital views MicroVision as a relatively low-risk investment when contrasted with 14% per annum interest in that Luminar recently arrayed on their debt. What does this mean? So I think that's right because -- let me take that question. So I think that's quite right because what we saw, Luminar are doing the 14% rate and again, the conversion price being 150%, 250% of the [indiscernible] extensive make-whole premiums that sort of tells you the risk appetite, what Luminar presents to the investors. And that's sort of why I mentioned earlier and this is the -- I think the sophistication of Hydrail comes in because they charted out the map of all LiDAR companies and perhaps rank them by their cash burn and the ability to get cash flow breakeven sooner and who has the maximum chance, right? I think the way to think about this is if you are bullish on LiDAR, all you have to do is pick the right company that will win the long-term game. And I think that's sort of how they sort of came up with their analysis in terms of coming up with the risk profile. And like I said, the risk profile that returns are protection downside and they write the upside, and that's why the incentives are all aligned for them and our shareholders for the stock price to go up. That's sort of what is reflected in the terms of the deal. That's why we are very excited about the terms of deal. And also one thing I would like to point out is a market cap to cash ratio, which is sort of what is -- we're trading at a premium, which actually tells you that every dollar in MicroVision invested actually has a lot more value than any of our competition, which is sort of why is another metric that any potential sophisticated investor looks at to see which flare will survive this this industry on a long-term basis. Next question, why has the company picked this time to pursue a different funding vehicle in convertible notes versus the ATM and equity-based financing used up until now. So look, I think it goes back to the point that, a, we want to control dilution and obviously want to make sure that the upside gets restricted to the people who have been invested in the company for a long time. And hence, that's why we feel this is a very good timing for this kind of a debt deal, if you would. And especially given the light of the revenue streams that we are expecting to ramp up from the 2025 industrial sales, we believe that this was a non-dilutive way to raise chunks of capital. And like I said, to be a deterrent to the short sellers because obviously, this reduces our dependence on the ATM. And like I said, the other thing is this brings in a sophisticated partner in our capital structure, which further is a signaling mechanism to sort of out there in the market that who's going to be the winner in the LiDAR space in the long run. Next question. How were we able to secure a $75 million convertible note without any material revenue? It seems extremely risky to do so without any guarantees of significant future revenue. So like I said, I think this is the sophistication of our partners. What I described earlier is the pick the most likely winner of the industry given the burn profile and the potential and the least amount of revenue any company needs to get to cash flow breakeven compared to our peers. So based on that, they really made their investment decision, which I think like a described you are bullish on LiDAR, you have to just pick and it's pretty obvious who will -- which company from based on the market cap and the market cash ratio, which company will provide this industry and become the last standing line out there in the industry. Next question. It does not feel like we're at the point of a company to be ready for convertible debt without guarantees for significant revenue. No, I think I would say, I would disagree with that because I think this -- we wouldn't have taken on the debt if we didn't think the revenues were that close to get. And I think that's sort of what is reflected in the terms of the deals like I described because there is cash redemption option for us to repay back the debt. And I'd like to remind people that at the end of the day, this is the normal evolution of a company, which goes from the most expensive piece of capital, which is equity then to convertible and then to hopefully bank debt, which is -- which can be financed of free cash flow down the road. So I think this is a natural progression of the company moving up in the value chain, which is, again, a signaling mechanism which tells you that now there's going to be more sophisticated investors looking at the story, which again goes back to the point that MicroVision has really elevated its visibility amongst the financial community despite not being a stat which is again a testament of the deals and how we feel this is going to shape the trajectory of the company as we move up the value chain and reduce our weighted average cost of capital or back as we move up, make our way all the way to lower and lower cost of capital. Next question. Senior notes can be predatory and it's not in shareholders' best interest at all when we still have an ATM facility open. Given the company's previous emphasis on fiscal responsibility, sometimes contrasting with competition, how should investors interpret this new debt arrangement? So like I just said, I think the terms of the deal are again, a testament to what the quality of the credit profile is versus Luminar just based on the interest rate that we described because they have 14%, and we have zero percent interest rate on this on the piece of paper, which again is reflective of the creditworthiness of the company. The way I think about this is, like I said, it's the visibility of the revenue, is the ability to pay back the debt in cash. And most importantly, the incentives being aligned, right? Because a bunch of companies who have done capital raises in the past, you have seen the stock getting punitive. The market being curative to the stock, be it innovate, be it all the other players that have recently raised capital in the market. I think this is, again, a milestone in the company's history. And also an example for the markets where the markets have sort of reflected the confidence in this deal just by in terms of stock price reaction and the terms of the deal. And most importantly, like I said, their incentives are aligned. They make more money if the stock price sees momentum due to commercial wins and industry factors because they convert the stock at $1.56 and potentially ride the upside with all other shareholders. So they have no economic incentive to short to start. With this sort of why we feel that this is not a predatory deal, which it could have been for a company -- other companies which like Luminar, which have a tremendously high interest rate and significantly onerous terms from that standpoint. Next question. If the expected growth is not greater than that of the financing, how does the company expect to continue operations going forward? What other kind of financing solutions might end up being required to remain an independent company? So let me take that question. We truly believe that the growth coming from this piece of growth capital is higher than the cost of capital because, like I said, this will put us on a trajectory which will lead to cheaper ways to finance the business until free cash flow generation as we move up the stack, move up the value chain in reducing our cost of capital. Because right now, we're moving -- making our way from the most dilutive and expensive equity capital to convertible and then eventually to bank debt that can be securitized against free cash flow generation down the road. So that's sort of how I want our investors to start thinking about the company as you become a more traditional business, those are some of the windows and the doors that will start opening once we start securing revenues and making our way up the value stack. I think those are all the questions that we accumulated from all our investors. We, again, thank you for -- our investors for being patient.
Sumit Sharma: Before we close that one comment. So I thank you for your time, guys. I really appreciate it for taking the time and joining and spending almost two hours with us this morning. I got a note while you were doing this call, and I guess I want to give some clarification. So I think Anubhav mentioned through this call and maybe he also works like smart money and sophisticated investor and some of you on the retail side have taken an exception to that and we feel like we were not appreciative of you. And this note sort of linked into the spam filter, so I will address it live. I think those are more terms that our partners have joined, they're used to seeing because they manage billions of dollars. How sophisticated am I right? I think the background I come from I'm running a company, I'm super excited about it. So I can assure you that these are not meant to insult anybody. That's not the intention. I think we truly appreciate you because we feel appreciated by you and the support that you guys give. So I wanted to just end it at that, that that should not be something you should walk away from thinking that we do not appreciate you guys to that level. There are certain industry terms that we have to use that allows our broader group of investors that are coming into this space, good knowledge then, but no way that's meant to be a slide to the people that are supported for so many years. So, thank you.
Anubhav Verma: Yeah. No, I echo that that's no meat it was meant. I think what I was trying to describe is, again, this just improves our visibility amongst that universe of investors that would start sort of looking at the story as we move up the value chain and reducing our cost of capital, which, again, is value creation for the shareholders so that the long-term value or the long-term value created for the company. Thank you again for joining us on the call. We really appreciate you taking out this time this morning. We look forward to speaking with you on our Q3 call in a few weeks.
Sumit Sharma: Thank you. Bye-bye.
Operator: Thank you. This concludes today's conference. All parties may disconnect, and have a great day.
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