On Monday, 17 March 2025, KenMed Corporation (NYSE: CHE) presented at the Oppenheimer 35th Annual Health Care MedTech and Services Conference. The company provided a strategic overview of its subsidiaries, VITAS Healthcare and Roto-Rooter, highlighting both growth prospects and operational challenges. While VITAS showed promising volume growth, Roto-Rooter faced competitive pressures, yet management expressed confidence in strategic adjustments.
Key Takeaways
- VITAS projects volume growth of 8.5% to 9% for 2025, driven by Medicare cap management.
- Roto-Rooter shifts focus to commercial sectors amid residential competition.
- KenMed remains committed to accretive acquisitions and share buybacks.
- New Certificates of Need (CONs) in Florida expected to foster growth.
- Strategic initiatives at Roto-Rooter show positive momentum in commercial services.
Financial Results
VITAS:
- Anticipates volume growth between 8.5% and 9% for 2025.
- Revenue growth guided at 10.5% to 11.3%, affected by Medicare cap.
- New CONs in Pasco and Marion counties expected to have minimal impact on 2025 earnings.
Roto-Rooter:
- Management programs initiated in 2024 are expected to drive improvements.
- Commercial business poised to lead revenue growth in 2025.
- Residential sector faces increased competition and pricing pressures.
Operational Updates
VITAS:
- Focus on managing Medicare cap through increased hospital admissions in Florida.
- Achieved additional CONs and targeting expansion in The Villages, Marion County.
Roto-Rooter:
- Addressed sales challenges with targeted improvements in underperforming branches.
- Enhanced commercial conversion rates, leveraging Google’s LSA program.
Future Outlook
VITAS:
- Optimism remains high for demographic-driven growth and policy shifts favoring hospice access.
Roto-Rooter:
- Expects continued recovery in commercial business, with strategic initiatives driving growth.
Q&A Highlights
- Addressed Medicare cap pressure and growth opportunities from new CONs in Florida.
- Discussed Roto-Rooter’s competitive landscape and strategic focus on commercial sectors.
- Reaffirmed commitment to accretive acquisitions and share buybacks as capital deployment strategies.
In conclusion, KenMed’s presentation at the Oppenheimer Conference highlighted its strategic focus on growth and operational adjustments. For a detailed account, please refer to the full transcript below.
Full transcript - Oppenheimer 35th Annual Health Care MedTech and Services Conference:
Mike Wederhorn, Healthcare Services Analyst, Oppenheimer: Good morning. Welcome to Oppenheimer’s thirty fifth annual healthcare conference. I’m Mike Wederhorn, the healthcare services analyst. It’s my pleasure to introduce KenMed Corporation and CEO, Kevin McNamara, CFO, Mike Weitzman, and CEO, Vytas, Nick Westfall. Welcome.
Mike Weitzman, CFO, KenMed Corporation: Thanks, Mike. Thanks, Mike. Great to be here.
Mike Wederhorn, Healthcare Services Analyst, Oppenheimer: Thanks, guys. Thanks for attending virtually. Always appreciate it. So as we are in the middle coming out of Q4 into Q1 here, can you talk about what you’re seeing from VITAS coming out of Q4?
Nick Westfall, CEO, VITAS, KenMed Corporation: Sure. I mean, I think overall, it’s pretty consistent in line with how we what we expected when we put together our full year guidance for 2025. So overall, volumes are still continuing in line with the relative range in which we predicted and all the other variables that are going in are falling in nicely as we sort of continue to operate on what we’ve deemed as our new normal on a go forward basis. I think the only other piece that has changed, which is an operating metrics but some positive news and recognition on the regulatory front with acknowledgement by CMS that they have effectively pulled the special focus program, for this calendar year. But, you know, for all, all obvious signs, it’ll go back into sort of a, a rulemaking discussion and hopefully get it right for the industry long term.
So steady as she goes, consistent with what we had forecasted and full steam ahead.
Mike Weitzman, CFO, KenMed Corporation: Yes, we continue to be pretty optimistic about the prospects for VITAS in 2025 and beyond. So I think we’re happy with how VITAS is operating at the moment. So you’ve been
Mike Wederhorn, Healthcare Services Analyst, Oppenheimer: seeing really strong emission trends of recent. Where do you think volume growth settles out over the next twelve to eighteen months?
Nick Westfall, CEO, VITAS, KenMed Corporation: I think for the most part, it’s right in line with the census guidance on which we provided 8.5% to 9%. From an emissions trend standpoint, we’ll see a slightly different mix that we’ve been talking about for six to eight months with probably a higher percentage overall of patients coming from hospital from a pre admit segment across our entire enterprise. Traditionally, and on average, those will have shorter length of stay. So it adds a little bit of compression to a twenty twenty four volume growth rate. But all in all, it’s 8.5% to 9% ADC supported by the right complementary admission trends and leading us into our overall guidance of 10.5% to 11.3%, I think, top line blended from a revenue standpoint.
If you see,
Mike Weitzman, CFO, KenMed Corporation: I think the 8.5 to 9% is still significantly above our historical average. So we’re very happy with that level. And as Nick said, the difference between the 2425% growth rate may be something you might get to, but specifically relates to the Medicare cap. And absent that one specific limiting factor, we could probably still get to that 24 growth rate, but that’s a limiting factor for the whole industry. So, 8.5% to 9%, I think, is sort of a repeatable, sort of long term look at where we think we can grow sustainably.
Mike Wederhorn, Healthcare Services Analyst, Oppenheimer: What do you think, you know, obviously, you said that the numbers have come up, the growth numbers have come up. What’s been driving that? What do you think, you know, kind of when we think about the industry from a whole? Is there is there acknowledge a bit more understanding of the benefit, just the aging of the population, you’re taking share, kind of what’s, you know, what’s, you know, I think the drivers behind this?
Nick Westfall, CEO, VITAS, KenMed Corporation: It’s going to be the combination of all things like in many cases it typically is. The overall demographic shift obviously is in the industry’s favor when you just look at take the baby boomer generation and particularly where they are from an average age standpoint and hospice as I think everybody will know on this call tends to bring patients on service in their early 80s. That’s a primary driver. There’s a recognition of the benefit and understanding of the benefit. Medpac just released their latest numbers on Friday that illustrates, I think it was 51, 50 one point seven total beneficiaries, elected the hospice benefit and most recently completed 23 cap year.
So you have the normal drivers around acceptance. I think the thing that excites us for the next ten years is not just that demographic, but earlier access into the benefit and the recognition now that earlier access into the benefit not only means better quality outcomes for patients and families, but elevated savings for the Medicare trust fund. And from a policy standpoint, that becomes just so critical and has re baseline, particularly with the new administration that’s looking for ways to improve healthcare, but do so that’s accretive to the trust fund as well as bending that cost curve. And hospice sits squarely in the right place for that discussion. And so we hope that policy awareness, all small tweaks will move in favor of more hospice, earlier hospice across the country.
Mike Wederhorn, Healthcare Services Analyst, Oppenheimer: That makes a lot of sense. So from a Trump two point o administration, you kinda see this as kind of not under a dark cloud here. You think you’re very well positioned. You don’t see potential areas for cuts or obviously Medicare continue to be in the crosshairs of conversation.
Nick Westfall, CEO, VITAS, KenMed Corporation: But I think like everything, there’s always the potential for misunderstanding. I think from a consistent positive messaging and general acceptance and belief of what we just stated around the hospice industry being one of the solutions for the Medicare trust fund, it’s in a really good place. There was a, you know, a ways and means subcommittee meeting on post acute last week. All the commentary from all those committee members was frankly very positive towards hospice as it related to the overall post acute segment. And so we think as an industry, the advocacy work that has done on for the last three to five years in particular, the new consolidated trade association, all those things hopefully allow the industry to be much more proactive and confident in all the dialogue that’s supported with independent data to put us in a really good spot as an industry over the next decade plus.
Mike Weitzman, CFO, KenMed Corporation: I think, Mike, our only hesitation or our only concern is, if you remember in 2013, if you know, there was a two percent sequestation across the board on Medicare. So if, you know, if the dose or something happens and they they take a hacksaw to Medicare versus a a scalpel that could affect us, but we don’t hear anything that causes us concern on that front at the moment.
Mike Wederhorn, Healthcare Services Analyst, Oppenheimer: Perfect. Thank you. So you mentioned you guys kind of mentioned cap earlier. Can you kind of obviously, you’re getting more you said more short length of stay emissions and so on. Can you discuss the cap pressure that you’re seeing in Florida?
And what you were kind of mentioned on what’s the plan to increase emissions at these programs? And how can we think about cap exposure across your entire portfolio?
Mike Weitzman, CFO, KenMed Corporation: Sure. So in Florida, I think it’s been a bit of a progression. And we’ll start with in the pandemic, the long length of stay patients were the ones we were losing, because we didn’t have access to those pre admission locations in many instances. And so during the last two, two point five years, Nick and Chemed, we’ve talked a lot about the community access program that was specifically designed to start taking in those completely appropriate patients from those pre admission locations. So we were intentionally increasing our length of stay.
Then in 2024, we knew we saw early in 2024 that we were going to have to moderate that a little bit. But that got exacerbated to some degree by the rate differential that we talked about that came out, I think, in April, maybe April or May, where there’s almost a 200 basis point difference between the cap protection number increase versus our rate increase in Florida specifically. And so that made the issue a little more urgent for ’25 than we had originally anticipated. So that’s sort of the progression of where we are. And as you say, we’ve talked about it, but we need to take in more hospital admissions.
It’s not a huge sea change. We have last year roughly 45% or 46% of our pre admission location admissions were from hospitals and that just needs to get back to its more historical 50 or 51. So it’s not a huge change, but it will compress the growth trajectory we saw in 2024, to still an above average growth trajectory for sure, just not quite the record level of 2024.
Kevin McNamara, CEO, KenMed Corporation: Yes. And Mike, on the admit side, we’ve been very encouraged by the fact that the last three cycles, we’ve got additional CONs in Florida, which obviously there’s some time in developing them, but Vitas has a history of hitting the ground running on those and was providing a lot of room for growth as it was developed, you know, from a standing start, let’s put it that way. So that’s very encouraging.
Nick Westfall, CEO, VITAS, KenMed Corporation: And the only thing to probably button it up all around is just as a reminder, every year, the ongoing balance and management of Medicare cap in every market with unique CBSAs as part of our ongoing forecasting standpoint in our analysis. I purposefully and intentionally made some comments on the last earnings call that just sort of highlighted how the Medicare cap in general, and this is still just philosophical, when it was put in place in 1983, you know, when the benefit got inactive to just try to protect what was intended to be a desirable benefit, you know, it was one hundred percent cancer patients at that point. Now, as we can all see, the hospice benefit has really expanded access and understanding across the board for every diagnosis. And when you look at earlier access or longer length to stay into the benefit for every disease state as evident in the North study that saves and elevates the total cost of care savings for the Medicare trust fund, it is sort of counterproductive to put a limiting factor like Medicare cap in place, for providers where, you know, the argument is the earlier access, the more money it saves the Medicare trust on.
Why try to put something in place that limits that earlier access or on a total weighted average? But it’s fine and it’s also one of the things that has been in place for, you know, forty, forty five plus years at this point and every provider is used to managing threatened one year maybe the circumstance in which we’re talking about. The next year, the price increase for that CBSA maybe lower than the overall national average. And therefore, it generates a cap cushion on October 1 just because of the math associated with the national cap rate compared to the individual markets. So it’s a year to year evaluation, but it’s minor in terms of just shifting strategies on a market by market basis.
Mike Weitzman, CFO, KenMed Corporation: And I think you also asked about the trajectory everywhere else and I think it’s steady as she goes. The place we’ve historically had is in California, and that’s just a difficult rate environment. There’s just fewer days that you can build in California based on the higher reimbursement rate there, based on the higher cost of living. And so that will always be a tougher cap environment, but that’s sort of stay as you go. That’s what we’ve been, as Nick said, managing for years now.
So everywhere else is pretty steady. It’s Florida that’s really the focus of what we’re looking at.
Mike Wederhorn, Healthcare Services Analyst, Oppenheimer: Kevin, you mentioned the CUNs and de novo actions in Florida. So kind of you kind of take us, you know, kind of ramp up their economics of these locations, how’s that going kind of, you know, just give us a kind of a, you know, status of where that’s at.
Nick Westfall, CEO, VITAS, KenMed Corporation: So ramp up wise, I’ll keep using the new normal term. The last five years, we’ve really looked at elevating our ramp up performance and entry approach on a market by market basis in every new market. Florida is where the vast majority of the de novos have lifted up and it’s been extremely successful. So, the point is we’ll have teams in place months before we effectively get the authorization, building relationships, building awareness. And in Florida, where there’s better and broader brand awareness, it just really helps to the lesson we learned is, we tend to have far more demand than we ever anticipated on day one, and we better have all the team members and clinicians to care for those patients.
And so we’ve matched those two things up and it’s really led to a ramp up, in our last few CONs that are everyone is a new record setter from the last one. Where we are currently, we have Pasco County that has just been recently lifted up. That’s going well. Every market has its own unique opportunity embedded inside of it. And we’re moving forward with Marion County, that has full clearance and authorization that has occurred since our last earnings call.
So we’re excited to get into Marion County over the next few months. And we think that one is very attractive because we serve all the surrounding counties around Marion County. We get a lot of patients already that leave Marion County going into the territories in which we are, you know, they go home, right? They’re crossing the county lines and we’re caring for them today. And so, we think that is, that’s a very exciting one for us for the second half of ’twenty five and into ’twenty six.
Kevin McNamara, CEO, KenMed Corporation: Including the expected The Villages.
Nick Westfall, CEO, VITAS, KenMed Corporation: Yeah, Everyone’s pretty familiar with The Villages, the largest retirement community, at least in the country, if not the world. Yes, the village is a smack dab in the middle of Marion County. So we’re very excited about it. Ramp up time and curve and how it translates economically, we don’t think it would be substantial to overall earnings from an EPS standpoint in 2025. But as we go back to Medicare cap as an example, every Medicare admission that we’re receiving for the most part there is a first time Medicare admit without any census related to it.
And so it’s very accretive as it relates to generating Medicare cap cushion for the first three years of any new CLN.
Mike Weitzman, CFO, KenMed Corporation: For guidance, Mike, and then Nick touched on it, it’s neither of them are going to be material from a top line perspective for 2025, and they both will probably have some level of operating loss in 2025, but not material there either. And that’s all sort of worked into the guidance. But it’s probably ’26 before we maybe see them turn profitable. But as Nick said, for ’25, by far the largest impact is going to be Medicare cap.
Kevin McNamara, CEO, KenMed Corporation: Perfect.
Nick Westfall, CEO, VITAS, KenMed Corporation: And the ramp up costs were already assimilated into our budget for ’25. So the costs were there. It was just an expectation on volume like I mentioned because we will we would have Rick whether we open in, you know, May or June or whether we open in September, our ramp up cost piece looks very similar as we get the teams prepared, hired office offices set up, leases, etcetera, just to be off and running on day one. Perfect.
Mike Wederhorn, Healthcare Services Analyst, Oppenheimer: Just to be fair on time here, I’m going to move over to Rotorooter even though I could continue to ask another fifteen minutes. I’ve put the questions on hospice. But, you know, obviously, Rotorooter has been a little bit, you know, uneven over the last twelve, eighteen months, definitely some pressure over there. So can you kind of give me your updated thoughts on the positioning in 2025 coming out of last year, kind of where you’re at at this point in time?
Kevin McNamara, CEO, KenMed Corporation: Well, you see from our guidance, like we’re encouraged by certain recent develops and by way of summary, starting in the second quarter last year, what we saw developing rotor was really a sales problem, a top line problem. We’ve talked a lot about what caused that, you know, the recovering from the pandemic, having and sort of home services being so good during the pandemic that drew a lot of private equity money into it. We saw a a very uncertain market for bidding for space on Google. All those things happened, and we saw a significant decline in the number of calls that Rotorua was getting, you know, quarter on quarter. And we took a number of steps to combat that.
In addition to that, we saw that Google has evolved over the last several months and that is they had a loss leader program, which is to attract more people onto the network called LSA where they basically it was a bargain price and just slowly over the last three quarters, not slowly, I mean, the cost of that has more than doubled over the period. So again, a little less competition there. But the bottom line is that we have we observed for really the first time in the whole time we’ve owned Reuters since 1980, a top line problem. And normally at ChemEd, the number one focus is margin and profitability. We had to shift gears a little bit and say, we had to have the Creek rising and that we had to focus more on sales.
And to the extent that I would say stage one for us is improving the top line, which Rotorua is doing. And over the last couple of quarters, we’ve said we’ve had some comments, I guess, but your margin is as high as it previously was. That’s the case. That’s kind of stage two for us, improving the margin. And also but it is part of it is part and parcel of the fact that part of our focus is about commercial.
And commercial has always been a little lower margin, a little tougher competition, a little situation for bigger jobs. You almost get second and third competing bids. But we’re again, based on our guidance we made, as encouraging results for us. We’re out of the woods, not out of the woods, compared to the healthy on days of the pandemic. But I know I’m encouraged.
Mike, what would you say?
Mike Weitzman, CFO, KenMed Corporation: Yes. Mike, I would say there’s I think there’s a fundamental difference maybe with the guidance we gave for 2025 versus what we had talked about for the guidance in 2024 around this time last year. I think the guidance last year was based at least somewhat on us thinking that the economic environment was going to improve, and that didn’t turn out for us. This year, the guidance in 2025 is much completely based on some of the things Kevin talked about, specific management programs that we’ve put in place in 2024 that are showing results. Kevin talked about Commercial specifically and Commercial is going to be the outsized driver for revenue growth in 2025.
The other thing that we’ve talked about is conversion rate from the calls we do get for residential converting those into water restoration and excavation jobs when appropriate, just a higher rate of conversion there. And we’ve seen some improvement there in the latter half of 2024. So our confidence in 2025 comes solely from the fact that, the improvements we saw, say, in the fourth quarter were driven by management programs and initiatives specifically. So said another way baked into the ’25 guidance is really no expectation relating to improvement in the market itself.
Mike Wederhorn, Healthcare Services Analyst, Oppenheimer: Okay. So, yes, it sounds like obviously commercial business is coming back faster than the residential business. Can you discuss what you kind of the, I guess, the seasonality or the cadence of that of the commercial versus the residents? And I guess also on another part on the I saw part of the rebound was like you said, you saw improvements in the water restoration business. Are there further opportunities there as well?
And are there similar practices that might, you know, be able to help other locations, in addition to what
Mike Weitzman, CFO, KenMed Corporation: you did previously? Commercial is probably less, dependent on seasonality. Those are, you know, large apartment complexes, McDonald’s, you know, multiple McDonald’s franchises, and they’re going to use this multiple times a year, based on issues they have. So I would say commercial has some dependence on seasonality, but not nearly as much as residential. Residential has seasonality, of course, and cold weather months, fourth quarter and first quarter are usually our highest revenue quarters.
Cold weather and wet weather is good for us, but ultimately that tends to sort of even out over time. So we were encouraged at the overall strength of the underlying metrics more so than specific seasonality issues. Talking about water restoration, that’s what we were talking more about residential. And essentially, if you remember, Mike, earlier in the year of 2024, we talked about a specific initiative we took in commercial where we looked at eight underperforming branches and really focused on those and tried to pull through some specific actions in each one of those eight underperforming branches. Roto Rooter went through a similar playbook then early in the fourth quarter on water restoration for residential.
In eight branches they saw that were underperforming from a conversion standpoint. And water restoration is almost exclusively, determinant based on first to the customer’s door. We want to get there before an insurance before they call their insurance company. And if we can do that, we are very, very good at closing the deal. But if they call the insurance company first, it’s much less likely that we will get the work.
So there was a specific management process undertaken for eight underperforming branches and those really improved in the fourth quarter and continued to show positive momentum in the first quarter of twenty twenty five.
Kevin McNamara, CEO, KenMed Corporation: And Mike, one thing, just to put in perspective, we talk about how we improve the business without the macroeconomic situation changing or even the competitive landscape you know, on Google. And I’ll just use this as a basic example. You know, something that Rotor has not done and had not a lot of emphasis on has been commercial excavation. And one of the reasons is that it’s highly competitive, they’re bigger jobs, with in other words, some are huge jobs and not necessarily the bread and butter of rotors excavation business. But, this order of magnitude, what we view as a lead, that is where our technician has through camera work or what have you, determine that this is a, you know, a possible excavation job.
The, you know, the conversion rate for those type of jobs, historically, has been about 8%. Okay? In other words, it’s it’s a tough market to get those. Through this emphasis, you know, over the last six months, it’s been 11%. And so we’ve been looking at the margin.
We’ve been more competitive on our bids, but we’re having significant improvement in that type of thing. But we still have a lot a long a long way to go. I mean, just out of single digits, there’s no reason why, you know, in time, we can’t approach our, you know, the same conversion rate that we see on the on the residential side. So that’s an area where that’s the that’s the method by which we’re pulling pulling ourselves out of the situation.
Mike Weitzman, CFO, KenMed Corporation: By by virtue of the size of those commercial excavation jobs, it’s much more likely that a potential customer would go out and get three bids and those sorts of things. And so we’ve had to really look hard at, as Kevin mentioned, the pricing of those jobs and maybe give in a little bit on our premium pricing model, a little bit, not hundreds of basis points, but give it a little bit to get that job and we’re being more successful getting those jobs.
Mike Wederhorn, Healthcare Services Analyst, Oppenheimer: Perfect. And then one more question on what are you talked about private equity in the past being more competitive, continue to ramp up their spending. Is that starting to slow down? What are you seeing from that perspective from a competitive environment from the PE shops?
Kevin McNamara, CEO, KenMed Corporation: Well, let me give you one of the platforms. We recently did a secret shopper just so that as confirming this, but there seems to be many cities almost a price war for the basic drain cleaning. And, for example, in Cincinnati, at least three businesses, usually HVAC businesses, which has been purchased by private equity and they’ve expanded into plumbing or been in plumbing, but dramatically increased our emphasis on it. We see these companies basically bidding more than rotary root for placement on Google. So we look at our placement costs and we see that we’re middle of the road.
We shoot to be number three, two or three in the bidding. We’re happy if we’re on the first page. And coupled with the name recognition of Rotorua that usually serves us well. We pay in excess of $90 per click, okay, for our placement, which is third. And we and it usually takes us a click and a half to get a job.
Okay. So we know what our Google costs are. And our competitors are advertising they’ll clean any drain There’s three of them in Cincinnati and it varies from $78 to $99 We contacted, because we had somebody who had an actual drain problem. They contacted one of our competitors and they came out and they cleaned the drain for $99 excuse me, for $91 why they I mean, obviously, they paid more and
Mike Weitzman, CFO, KenMed Corporation: it was a Google click.
Kevin McNamara, CEO, KenMed Corporation: It would know that they got the job by base you know, from Google. And we say, that doesn’t sound like sustainable competition to us. You know, it’s they’re they’re obviously looking to establish a name in Cincinnati, but if they paid in excess of $100 to Google for the job, paid a service person to come out and do the job and hope to report profit on it, I mean, again, that gives you some indication of a level of competition. Is it ruinous competition? Is it a race to the bottom for them?
I think it may be, as you know, like, over the years, we do not advertise price. We don’t give price over the phone. Somebody contacts us, they say, how much is it? We say, well, look, we said something we don’t know. We have to analyze the situation.
We’ll go out, We’ll examine it. We’ll give you a written free estimate. You’re under no obligation. If you want us to do it, we’ll do it. I mean, that’s how Rotorua has conducted business for their entire existence.
So we feel that I expect on the residential side that it has a dampening effect on Roto Rooter’s residential business to have that typical that type of competitor out there advertising and providing service a loss. But it’s heartening for us too in that if that’s the best they can do, that is compete with us by making no profit or operating a loss, we think we’ll be we’ll be fine. And, it’s just a matter of how much what the investment horizon, if they really think they can sell the business based on a multiple of top line, more power to them. Ultimately, you have to make a profit and provide the service.
Mike Wederhorn, Healthcare Services Analyst, Oppenheimer: One last question here. We got like thirty seconds. So always a good question for you guys. Capital deployment, that’s always been something I always kind of watch what you guys are doing. You guys have always done been very intelligent in terms of the use of capital.
So just kind of your last thoughts on that.
Mike Weitzman, CFO, KenMed Corporation: Well, the playbook that Kevin and my predecessor Dave put together on capital deployment, That has not changed. You saw in the fourth quarter, we saw a dip in our stock price. We saw interest rates coming down on the cash we had on the balance sheet and we took a bigger swing at buybacks. But as always, our first priority would be accretive acquisitions like we did at VITAS with Covenant last year, but we’ll always do some level of share buyback on a quarterly basis. We think that’s the right thing to do from a free cash flow standpoint.
And essentially at the moment, no matter what the stock price is, we’re bullish enough on both of these businesses over the next twelve to twenty four months that it’s going to look like a good deal from a return standpoint on a risk free basis, essentially, no matter what price we buy at at the moment.
Mike Wederhorn, Healthcare Services Analyst, Oppenheimer: Perfect. Well, we’re out of time. I appreciate your time today. Always participating and love hearing the story. It sounds like everything’s on track.
So like I said, thank you. Thanks again for all your time.
Mike Weitzman, CFO, KenMed Corporation: Thanks, Mike. Thanks, Mike. Have a good one.
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