Siemens, a prominent player in the Industrial Conglomerates industry with a market capitalization of $192 billion, reported a stronger-than-expected performance for the first quarter of 2025, with earnings per share (EPS) surpassing forecasts and revenue exceeding expectations. Despite these positive results, Siemens’ stock experienced a decline of 2.06% in pre-market trading. The company, which maintains a GOOD Financial Health Score according to InvestingPro, continues to pursue strategic initiatives in AI and digital business amid a challenging market environment.
Key Takeaways
- Siemens’ EPS for Q1 2025 was €3, exceeding the forecasted €2.44.
- Revenue reached €19.76 billion, surpassing the €19.33 billion forecast.
- Stock declined 2.06% in pre-market trading despite earnings beat.
- Siemens confirmed its fiscal 2025 outlook, anticipating 3-7% revenue growth.
- The company is expanding its digital and AI-driven product offerings.
Company Performance
Siemens demonstrated robust performance in Q1 2025, with a 6% revenue increase year-over-year. The company continues to strengthen its position in the industrial AI sector and has expanded its digital business, which saw a 9% growth. Siemens’ strategic acquisitions, such as Dotmatics, are expected to bolster its software capabilities.
Financial Highlights
- Revenue: €19.76 billion, up 6% year-over-year.
- Earnings per share: €3, exceeding the forecast of €2.44.
- Operational profit margin: 15.3%.
- Free cash flow in the industrial business: €2.1 billion.
Earnings vs. Forecast
Siemens’ EPS of €3 for Q1 2025 exceeded the forecast of €2.44, representing a surprise of approximately 16%. The company’s revenue also surpassed expectations, reaching €19.76 billion against the forecasted €19.33 billion. This marks a significant performance compared to previous quarters.
Market Reaction
Despite the earnings beat, Siemens’ stock fell by 2.06% in pre-market trading, reflecting investor concerns over broader market conditions and geopolitical uncertainties. Trading at a P/E ratio of 23.11, the stock appears slightly overvalued according to InvestingPro’s Fair Value analysis. The stock has shown strong momentum with a 22.7% return over the past six months, and analysts maintain a bullish outlook with an 8% upside potential. Want deeper insights? InvestingPro offers 12 additional exclusive tips about Siemens, including detailed valuation metrics and growth indicators.
Outlook & Guidance
Siemens has confirmed its fiscal 2025 outlook, expecting comparable revenue growth between 3% and 7%. The company anticipates EPS pre-PPA guidance of €10.40 to €11.00. With a solid dividend yield of 2.33% and a 34-year track record of consistent dividend payments, Siemens demonstrates strong shareholder returns. The company is optimistic about a gradual recovery in the automation business but notes potential headwinds from currency translation. Access comprehensive analysis and discover how Siemens compares to its peers with a InvestingPro subscription, which includes exclusive Pro Research Reports available for 1,400+ top stocks.
Executive Commentary
CEO Roland Busch emphasized the company’s leadership in industrial AI, stating, "Through our leadership in industrial AI, we enable our customers to combine the real and the digital worlds." CFO Ralf Thomas added, "We will deliver further value creation through profitable growth."
Risks and Challenges
- Geopolitical uncertainties impacting customer decision-making.
- Soft investment sentiment in automotive and machine building sectors.
- Potential currency translation headwinds.
- Market saturation in certain sectors.
- Supply chain disruptions affecting production timelines.
Q&A
During the earnings call, analysts inquired about Siemens’ product launches in China and the market recovery. The company discussed the potential of the automation market and provided insights into the Dotmatics acquisition strategy, highlighting its role in expanding Siemens’ software capabilities.
Full transcript - Siemens (SIE) Q2 2025:
Conference Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, while we’re waiting to begin, may I just remind you that the conference call is also being webcast live on the Investor Relations section of the Siemens website. The website address is www.siemens.com/investorrelations. A recording of the webcast will be available shortly after the close of the call. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Siemens twenty twenty five Second Quarter Conference Call. As a reminder, this call is being recorded.
Before we begin, I would like to draw your attention to the Safe Harbor statement on Page two of the Siemens presentation. This conference call may include forward looking statements. These statements are based on the company’s current expectations and certain assumptions and are therefore subject to certain risks and uncertainties. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to your host today, Mr. Tobias Hautzler, Head of Investor Relations.
Please go ahead.
Tobias Hautzler, Head of Investor Relations, Siemens: Thank you. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to our Q2 conference call. All documents were released this morning and can be found also on our IR website. I’m here today with our CEO, Roland Busch and our CFO, Ralf Thomas, who will review the Q2 results. After the presentation, we will have time for Q and A.
With that, I hand it over to you, Roland.
Roland Busch, CEO, Siemens: Thank you, Tobias, and good morning, everyone. And thank you for joining us to discuss our second quarter performance and our perspective on the remainder of fiscal twenty twenty five. The last few months demonstrated to all of us how fundamentally and how fast the world is transforming. This has a huge impact on our societies and how companies are operating. You know all these challenges very well, and we will talk about the impact of geopolitical shifts, tariffs and trade restrictions and about the resulting effects on supply chains in a minute.
However, it’s worth noting that this phase of change comes with significant opportunities too. In an environment of accelerating technological progress driven by data and AI, we have to fundamentally rebuild our products, processes, and the way we operate. It is crucial that we fully embrace new technologies as companies, but also as societies. And it is a trigger for reinvention. Fear silos, less bureaucracy, much higher speed when it comes to innovation and time to market.
Through our leadership in industrial AI, we enable our customers to combine the real and the digital worlds to improve competitiveness, resilience and sustainability and to achieve real impact. Our markets are attractive, aligned with secular growth drivers based on well established long term trends. Our localized footprint makes us a strong partner across the globe to support upgrades in infrastructure, transportation and industry. And we are ready to leverage public investment plans and to contribute towards high quality secure and sustainable growth. Now let me outline the key highlights of our successful second quarter.
Our very robust top line performance underpins the relevance of our offerings. Book to bill reached a strong 1.1 with all businesses at or above one. Our high quality order backlog stands at a healthy EUR117 billion, supporting future profitable growth. Group orders reached €21,600,000,000 up 9% over the prior year. Key drivers were Mobility and Healthineers, both up double digit.
Smart Infrastructure again delivered orders on a high level. As expected, orders at Digital Industries were up sequentially and on level with prior year, driven by our automation business. The recovery was fueled by short cycle product business in China, where destocking of elevated stock levels at customers approached completion by the end of the second quarter as anticipated. Looking ahead, further recovery of economic activity will depend heavily on clarity about the future tariff environment and on timely resolution of trade conflicts. This is clearly noticeable in our conversations with customers who point at a higher level of uncertainty.
Investment sentiment in core industries such as automotive and machine building remained soft, particularly in Europe’s core export driven markets like Germany. Overall, revenue growth reached 6% with strong double digit contributions from Mobility and Smart Infrastructure. The latter was again driven by an outstanding 18% growth in the Electrification business on stringent execution of data center projects. The Automation business at Digital Industries delivered slightly ahead of expectations, down mid single digit over prior year, but with sequential improvement from the trough levels we saw in Q1. Software was modestly lower due to fewer large orders in EDA business on tough comparables.
All regions contributed to the group revenue growth, reflecting stringent backlog execution. The Americas were up 11%, fueled by strong momentum in The United States, while EMEA grew 5%. AsiaAustralia was up 2% on strength in India up by 8% and on a stable development in China. Robust revenue growth converted into strong results for profitability and free cash flow. An excellent profit of €3,200,000,000 in the Industrial business clearly topped market expectations even without the divestment gained for the Wiring Accessories business.
I’m very pleased with the operational profit margin of 15.3%, excluding the wiring accessories gain. Earnings per share pre PPA, as reported, reached €3 and stringent cash conversion led to strong €2,100,000,000 of free cash flow in the Industrial business. With rising macroeconomic and geopolitical uncertainty, future developments are becoming increasingly difficult to predict. Although significant uncertainties persist, we confirm our group outlook for fiscal year twenty twenty five, and Ralf will give you further details. We have defined our long term direction for Siemens as one tech company.
This program helps us to strive for stronger customer focus, fast innovations and higher profitable growth. Executing on the program’s foundational tracks is delivering great value for our customers. The benefits were clearly visible at the Hannover Fair, where we showed a broad range of AI driven innovations that we will scale. When I was in China A Few Weeks ago to attend the China Development Forum, we noted some encouraging signals for more cooperation and openness to drive high-tech and high quality growth in China. And we are there at the right time to foster growth in the Chinese market with our recent strategic smart manufacturing product launch.
16 new locally developed automation and digitalization products focused on value for money were introduced, 18 new products in total. Customer feedback has been excellent, and we are exploring many new business opportunities. As a second pillar, we are stringently executing on the program’s investment track to shape our portfolio, such as closing the Altea acquisition at the end of Q2 earlier than expected, expanding our software offerings to the life science industry by acquiring Dotmatics, pursuing smaller bolt on acquisitions in the software field and driving divestments such as the wiring accessories business and more than doubling our production capacity in The United States for electric equipment to power critical infrastructure. As part of the program’s productivity initiatives, we continuously work on optimizing our footprint and value chains, a key success factor for managing tariff turmoil effectively. And we are making good progress in strengthening competitiveness in the DI automation business.
The plan is to adjust capacities, realign sales activities and intensify collaboration and product development globally. Well, those of you who visited our packed booth in Hannover experienced firsthand how our teams drive innovations together with customers and partners. And the winning formula is data plus AI plus domain know how. And let me highlight just a few examples. First, software defined automation.
Together with Audi, we introduced and successfully went live with a virtual PLC on one of Audi’s production lines. The benefits are higher speed and flexibility. And in addition, Audi is taking the opportunity to analyze data centrally, build AI applications and improve decision making. Second, we announced a series of new AI driven Siemens accelerator applications and innovations built together with some of our powerful ecosystem partners such as Microsoft, NVIDIA and AWS. Our long standing partnership with Accenture is progressing to the next level.
A dedicated business practice of up to 7,000 Accenture professionals is now being formed. The goal is to combine Siemens technology, access to data and deep domain knowledge in software, automation and industrial AI with Accenture’s power to apply data and AI in engineering and manufacturing for customer solutions at scale. And I’m very proud that our Siemens industrial co pilot received the prestigious Helmers Award for this year business impact. It is a clear business impact, the first for our company. After a very stringent regulatory approval process, we closed the Altea acquisition at the end of Q2, which was earlier than planned.
We immediately started to bring the teams together beginning at the Hannover Fair. Customer feedback for the most complete AI powered design and simulation portfolio has been excellent. The teams have started integration activities and have begun implementing comprehensive measures to ensure cost savings of more than $150,000,000 Our joint organization will drive revenue synergies from cross selling our highly complementary portfolios and from providing the Altea offering full access to Siemens direct and indirect sales footprint. We will upgrade you on a regular basis about the integration process. A few weeks ago, we announced another strategic milestone, the acquisition of Dotmedix, a very successful, fast growing and highly profitable U.
Based leader in R and D software for the life sciences sector. Dotmedix has built a market leading SaaS platform featuring a best in class portfolio of scientific applications and a unique AI enabled multimodal data platform. You probably analyzed our comprehensive presentation explaining the investment highlights in detail. And let me briefly summarize our rationale. We will accelerate the process from drug discovery to manufacturing so that new therapies can reach people faster and more affordably.
Today, bringing a single drug from idea to the market can take over a decade and cost billions. Yet speed and effective processes drive economic success. This challenge keeps pharma CEOs up at night. The trend in life science is moving away from wet labs in the real world to dry labs in the digital world. And many customers would agree that one of the biggest hurdles inside is siloed data, which limits insights across the entire life cycle and slows decision making.
Our leading automation technology and AI powered digital twins, as well as intelligent infrastructure offerings already support hundreds of pharma customers. They can produce medicine faster in smaller lot sizes and more agile with the required standards of high quality and resource efficiency. Many of you could experience hands on our comprehensive offerings by visiting the pharma showcase at Hanover Fair. Now we are combining Dotmatics’ portfolio with Siemens leading technology and deep expertise in manufacturing and industrial AI. Combination will create a unique end to end digital threat from early research and development to full scale production.
Our customers will be able to innovate faster and accelerate the time to market for new medicines. This move increases our total addressable market by US11 billion dollars in the area of software for life sciences with resilient double digit market growth. We will apply our proven value creation playbook from discrete PLM and EDA to life sciences, driving growth and synergies by expanding from pharma also into chemicals, biofuels and customer packaged goods. Our goal is clear: we will further strengthen our number one position in industrial software. Our digital business is on a robust growth trajectory and stands at €4,100,000,000 after the first half year, up 9%.
Besides targeted acquisitions, we are expanding and scaling our Siemens Accelerator offerings across all businesses to foster further growth. Innovation is at the heart of our organization. This is fully reflected in Siemens, taking the lead among European companies in pattern rankings driven by machine learning and AI. A major contributor to digital business is the continuing progress in transforming main parts of our DI software business towards Software as a Service. ARR growth again reached a very healthy level of 12% over the previous year.
The cloud portion stands at 2,000,000,000 equaling 45% of ARR. And the team is on track, and we confirm the target of 50% by the end of fiscal year twenty twenty five. All customer focused performance indicators continue to head in the right direction as well. As we have discussed on various occasions, Siemens DNA has been global from the very beginning. This is reflected in a strong local for local footprint legacy, which we have continuously expanded over time.
We have analyzed our value flows thoroughly and have estimated the tariff impacts based on the current tariff regime, which is obviously highly volatile. Based on our assessment and including mitigation actions, we see for our DI, SI and Mobility businesses a limited net profit impact in fiscal year twenty twenty five. Around 80% of their U. S. Cost base stems from North America with a vast majority from within The United States.
Where needed, we are taking a comprehensive set of actions such as applying contractual terms and executing price adjustments. We’re also diversifying as well as rebalancing sourcing and production capacities. The current situation is complex and volatile and is closely monitored by our teams. Siemens Healthineers disclosed last week, they face significant headwinds on profits of around EUR 200,000,000 to EUR 300,000,000. And as I said in the beginning, the knock on effects of uncertainty will have on customers’ behavior, on global demand and on the overall economy are very difficult to predict.
And with these perspectives, over to you, Ralf.
Ralf Thomas, CFO, Siemens: Thank you, Roland, and good morning to everybody. Let me share more about our strong fiscal Q2 performance expectations looking ahead. Orders for Digital Industries at €4,300,000,000 were on level with the prior year and slightly up sequentially with a book to bill of one point zero. It was encouraging to see that the Automation businesses showed 8% growth over prior year with low teens growth in discrete, while process was flat. As expected, the software business was below the prior year on a lower volume of EBA orders.
Orders nearly reached €1,500,000,000 for book to bill well above one. In the underlying market dynamics and manufacturing output, we saw some indications for improvement, primarily in Asia as well as signs of stabilization in The U. S. And Europe. However, rising tariffs and trade tensions have put a risk on further recovery in important customer industries such as automotive and machine building.
They are also putting overall investment sentiment at risk. In April, we observed some caution in decision making by some of our customers. As expected, customer destocking in China mostly came to an end by the end of the second quarter. We will maintain close communication with many of our Chinese distributors and will monitor stock levels diligently going forward. Our backlog at Digital Industry decreased moderately to EUR 9,400,000,000.0.
Then the software backlog remained at EUR 5,700,000,000.0, affected by weaker U. S. Dollars. The Automation backlog stood at a base level of €3,600,000,000 Revenue for DI was 5% lower, slightly ahead of our expectations. Therein, Automation revenue was down 6% over prior year to €2,900,000,000 but well above the trough reached in the previous quarter.
Discrete Automation declined by 8%, but with sequential improvement in factory automation and motion control. Process Automation was flattish. The Software business was modestly down by 2%. There, a significant decline in the EDA business more than offset healthy growth of 9% in the PLM business. DI’s profitability, excluding Altea, reached 15.4%, an increase over the first quarter.
Altea related transaction costs weighed on the reported margin with 60 basis points. The robust profit margin in Automation was supported by stringent cost management, while profitability in Software was softer due to a decline in EDA revenue. Severance charges played a minor role in the second quarter. However, we are in ongoing consultations with employee representatives on executing capacity adjustments in Germany and other regions to strengthen competitiveness. As already indicated, we expect to record material severance charges in the second half of fiscal twenty twenty five, with the bulk of them occurring in the fourth quarter.
Continuing pricing discipline and productivity gains supported a net positive economic equation in the second quarter, which we aim to maintain in fiscal twenty twenty five. Digital Industries achieved a solid free cash flow of more than €500,000,000 Now let me give you the regional perspective on our top line automation performance. As mentioned, automation orders continued to recover. In China, orders increased sharply by 41% over the prior year on easy comps and were just slightly below the strong first quarter. Muted economic conditions still weighed on growth momentum in Germany, while Italy was up 12% over prior year.
As destocking effects have faded, revenue development has been returning to normal patterns that are rather closely linked to order intake and actual market demand. All large regions improved sequentially. China, up by 2%, stands out as the first major country to return to revenue growth over prior year. Looking ahead, we confirm our fiscal twenty twenty five guidance for organic revenue growth of minus 6% to plus one percent. Assuming that trade tensions will not result in major disruptions to customer demand and to our automation business, we expect improving trends in our end markets to materialize in the second half of the year, supporting the top and bottom line.
Consequently, we expect the top line in automation to continue its gradual recovery. Nevertheless, uncertainty is now much higher, and we will monitor customer and distributor feedback very closely. CI Software business will continue its consistent underlying growth trend, building on a highly successful SaaS transformation. However, as indicated in the past, the extraordinary large scale software license contracts booked in the third quarter of fiscal twenty twenty four will not repeat on those exceptionally high levels in the second half of fiscal twenty twenty five. As a result, we expect comparable software revenue growth in fiscal twenty twenty five to be negative in a low to mid single digit range.
In nominal terms, we expect the Altea business to add around €300,000,000 to revenue. For the second half year, we expect operational profit margin to improve in line with several factors: recovering automation revenue, unfolding productivity measures and a seasonally strong fourth quarter in software driven by EDA. However, as mentioned, material severance charges will weigh on margin. Nevertheless, we confirm that the profit margin will be in the range of 15% to 19%. For the third quarter, we see DI orders sequentially up and on a comparable level by mid single digits below prior year.
Therein, we expect the Automation business to improve significantly but with substantially lower volumes from the Software business on very tough comps. We anticipate DI revenue growth to be down high single digit on a comparable basis. Automation revenue is expected to grow moderately, whereas Software will be substantially below the prior year’s third quarter on a lower volume from large license deals in PLM and VDAs. They were exceptionally high, as discussed back then. For the third quarter, we see the profit margin, excluding Altea, to be around the midpoint of the annual guidance range.
Now let’s turn to Smart Infrastructure, which ran like Clockwork and delivered an outstanding second quarter performance. The team achieved strong revenue growth in healthy end markets and continued its successful run of operational margin expansion for the eighteenth quarter in a row. In total, orders were down 3% at a consistently high level of EUR 6,000,000,000. Therein, orders were up by 9% in the Electrification business, which benefited from large contracts from semiconductor and power utility customers. On the other hand, orders at Electrical Products declined 16% due to fewer major data center orders in The U.
S. Compared to last year’s second quarter. The decline was caused by slower project activity from one specific hyperscaler customer. Overall, activity in the data center vertical remained sound with a book to bill above one. The book to bill on SI level reached a healthy 1.04.
SI’s strong order backlog of EUR 19,600,000,000.0 provides very good visibility for the second half of fiscal twenty twenty five. Revenue growth was broad based and reached 10%, slightly topping expectations. The largest contribution came from the Electrification business, which was up by 18 on excellent backlog conversion. Up by 8%, Electrical Products continued its consistent growth path from a high level. Building showed 5% growth driven by Solutions and Sustainability projects.
In the first half of fiscal twenty twenty five, revenue in the Data Center business grew sharply by more than 45% to around €1,300,000,000 Flawless backlog execution again led to further operational margin expansion of 190 basis points year over year to 18.5%. The business continued to benefit from economies of scale due to higher revenue and high capacity utilization. SI’s economic equation was once again clearly positive, supported by stringent pricing and sustainable productivity gains, overcompensating for cost increases. In addition, positive currency effects contributed 40 basis points to margin improvement. As Roland mentioned, successfully exiting the Wirings accessories business contributed five fifty basis points to profitability.
Outstanding free cash flow reached almost EUR 1,000,000,000 on strong operational cash conversion of EUR 920,000,000.00, supported by lower operating working capital. Looking at the regional top line development, we saw robust demand with stronger order momentum across most geographies, driven by Germany with several large electrification orders in various verticals. As mentioned, The U. S. Was down 17% on very tough comps from record data center orders in Q2 of fiscal twenty twenty four.
China showed improving top line development across businesses on low comps. Revenue growth in all regions was fueled by excellent backlog execution. The U. S. Again achieved an outstanding 16% growth.
Key growth engines were the Electrification and Electrical Product businesses, driven by successful execution of data center projects. The Service business delivered 6% growth, fueled by Europe. We continue to expect very consistent and resilient end market demand trends with growth in our main verticals. Therefore, we confirm our fiscal twenty twenty five guidance of 6% to 9% comparable revenue growth and an operational profit margin in the range of 17 to 18%, excluding the Wiring Accessories divestment gain. For the third quarter, we see the comparable revenue growth rate being at around the midpoint of the full year growth guidance range of 6% to 9%, strongly supported by order backlog.
We anticipate the profit margin to be in the range of 17% to 18%. Mobility delivered a strong second quarter performance. Orders at €3,900,000,000 were up due to a higher level of large and midsized orders at attractive margins in the Rolling Stock and Rail Infrastructure businesses with several bookings towards the end of the quarter. Order backlog stands at €49,000,000,000 with further improvement in gross margin. This backlog includes more than €14,000,000,000 of attractive service business.
Revenue was up 12% in the second quarter, fueled by strong rolling stock backlog execution, which was above expectations and by a growing contribution from customer services. Profit margin reached 9.1%, up 70 basis points with strength in the Customer Services business and stringent project execution. Free cash flow was better than expected, but still on a low level in absolute terms. Looking at project payment profiles and the timing of large order awards, we expect a material catch up in the second half of fiscal twenty twenty five. Our sales funnel continues to look very promising for the second half of twenty twenty five, but it will be skewed towards the fourth quarter.
Specifically, the teams are progressing and working hard to reach the financial close for the red and blue lines in Egypt. We are confident to book the order as indicated in the second half of fiscal twenty twenty five. Our assumptions for revenue growth for the third quarter is to approach mid teens on easy comps. Third quarter margin is seen again within the full year’s margin guidance of 8% to 10%. Now let me keep the commentary on the results below the Industrial businesses brief.
As indicated, Siemens Financial Services achieved a strong second quarter performance driven by a substantial gain in the equity business from selling the remaining stake in Bangalore Airport. This sale closed a highly successful investment chapter in India. SFS continues to expect fiscal twenty twenty five year earnings before taxes on the prior year level. I’m very pleased with our free cash flow performance in the first half year, which materially topped the prior year’s level in our Industrial business as well as on an all in basis. Stringent working capital management continued even though strong commercial activity led to a net increase of €300,000,000 in operating working capital, solely driven by receivables.
Outside Industrial business, we recorded substantially higher tax payments in the second quarter. We are confident that we will be able to deliver excellent levels of double digit cash return once again in fiscal twenty twenty five. And we continued our path of shareholder friendly capital allocation with a dividend payment of EUR 4,100,000,000.0 in February. Our share buyback program is progressing very well. Liquidity outside free cash flow was materially strengthened by more than $4,000,000,000 in proceeds from selling shares in Siemens Energy and Siemens Healthineers, and by divesting the wiring accessories business.
This is a sound basis for stringent capital allocation in the future, and we will continue to balance investment and attractive shareholder returns. As mentioned, we expect strong operational cash generation for the second half year and can draw on substantial financing potential from the sale of shares in listed entities. As a result, we are well prepared for upcoming financing needs such as the PlotMatics acquisition and the subsequent deleveraging. Now, let me point out our updated assumptions for our outlook for fiscal ’twenty five. Our expectations are unchanged regarding R and D intensity, which will be at least on the high level of fiscal ’twenty four.
They are also unchanged regarding selected investments in growth fields. These investments will keep SG and A as a percentage of revenue on par with the prior year. We will continue to support mid term growth momentum by increasing CapEx in targeted growth fields to expand capacities and resilience, as mentioned before. As previously discussed, we assume now higher expenses for adjustment in FY 2025, particularly at CI. Therefore, we now expect severance in the 500,000,000
Tobias Hautzler, Head of Investor Relations, Siemens: to €600,000,000
Ralf Thomas, CFO, Siemens: We recorded a modest tailwind from exchange rate in the first half year. However, based on current rates, we expect this to turn into a headwind for the second half of fiscal twenty twenty five. Let me now give you a short update on our pair. We closed the acquisition right at the end of the second quarter. Since then, our joint teams have been diligently working on the integration to swiftly start executing on the planned synergy.
For the time being, we continue excluding Altair effects from our guidance for fiscal twenty twenty five, as we are still in the process of assessing phasing and impact of certain details of post closing and integration activities. For modeling purposes, you can assume a negative impact on EPS pre PPA in the range of €30 to €40 cents for fiscal twenty twenty five, including bridge financing due to early closing. For additional PPA, you can assume around EUR 100,000,000 for the second half of fiscal twenty twenty five. We will update you on further financial implications from Altair with our third quarter results. Now let me conclude with our guidance for the group, which we confirm despite increased uncertainty in the economic environment.
For the Siemens group, we expect comparable revenue growth in the range of 3% to 7%, and the book to bill ratio above one. We expect EPS pre PPA for fiscal ’twenty five in the range of €10.4 to €11 This excludes a positive €2.64 per share related to the sale of Inhomotix, and, as mentioned, effects related to the acquisition of Alpeir, which closed at the end of the second quarter and is therefore not yet included. This outlook excludes burdens from legal and regulatory matters, as always. Ladies and gentlemen, our direction is unchanged. We will deliver further value creation through profitable growth, resilient cash generation and prudent capital allocation.
With that, I hand it back to you, Tobias, for Q and A.
Tobias Hautzler, Head of Investor Relations, Siemens: Thank you, Raul.
Ralf Thomas, CFO, Siemens: We are
Tobias Hautzler, Head of Investor Relations, Siemens: now ready for Q and A. Please limit yourselves to one question per person. We want to give as many of you the possibility certainty to raise your questions. Operator, please open the Q and A now.
Conference Operator: Thank Ladies and gentlemen, please hold the line.
Tobias Hautzler, Head of Investor Relations, Siemens: You need it.
Conference Operator: We will now begin the question and answer
Roland Busch, CEO, Siemens: session.
Conference Operator: The first question comes from Alexander Virgo from Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Alexander Virgo, Analyst, Bank of America: Yes, thanks very much. Good morning, Roland, Ralph, Tobias. Thanks for the question. I guess it’s a DI question, please. So I wondered if you can talk through some of the trends in U.
S. And China. And if I could split it into two parts, please, the automation piece and the software piece. So if I look at the region trends, looks like U. S.
Has slowed from 12% growth order growth last quarter to 0% this quarter, although I know you’ve had sequentially up. So question just around what you’re seeing in terms of customer behavior. You referred to uncertainty in April. Any comments on trading would be really helpful. And if you could include why software growth ARR growth has slowed from 14% to 12%, that would be really helpful.
And then Ralph, if I could just triangulate please on the guidance for Q3, would it be fair to assume you expect book to bill in the automation business to be above 1% or below one and the revenue growth for that piece of the business to be about mid single digit? Thank you very much.
Ralf Thomas, CFO, Siemens: So thank you, Alex. That was quite a great call. Let me start with the last one to get off the table, the Q3 book to bill for the automation business will be pretty much around one from today’s perspective. And when I said that starting into the third quarter, customer behavior is driven by a certain level of uncertainty and hesitance. This is not really new.
I mean, it was pretty much like that for the last eight to ten weeks since the debate around tariffs is very volatile. In changing perspectives, and many of our customers probably think twice about placing orders. Nevertheless, the structural demand is there, no doubt. And therefore, I just consider that to be a potential timing difference at the moment. Also, first figure is about April.
From that what we know as we speak for today, there is not a massive change. It is pretty much in line with our expectations. I mean, typically after the third month of the quarter, we have a bit of a bounce back when it comes to new orders. That’s obvious and a normal pattern in, that’s what we see for many years. So I would call that in line.
I have been walking you through the different geographies already, which is having putting quite some confidence into the business expectations way forward in China that there was a clear momentum being created in new orders in the short cycle business of Yai in China. We consider the normalization, as we call it, to be completed as indicated materially. We are actually where we think we are for a steady state. Also, famous distributor stocks have been coming down now on February and third quarter to a minus level, a bit below. So eight to nine is all was used to be that what we saw as normality in the past, and so is the backlog in our loan books in China and also everything in our customer stocks, we think we may say, competed when it comes to normalization.
Still, of course, we stay very closely in touch after all the ups and downs with our distributors, the large and material ones in the country, in China in particular, but also outside, to make sure that we anticipate movements in the market in the best and most earliest way that we can do that. And so, also, let me use the opportunity to also point out that this, even though that was not the center of your question, that the vertical of data center in SI, This was not a surprise with new orders in the second quarter. I mean, you may remember that the last year’s second quarter, and we have been calling that out with numbers, was on a level of 1,200,000,000 new orders in data center that was exceptionally high, and almost twice the amount we had in the prior quarter then. We have been indicating this is not new normal, obviously, and therefore we are not surprised that there’s a bounce back on extremely tough comps in prior year. What is important for us way forward for the data center business is that we still see high growth rates in executing the existing backlog here, and with a growth rate of 42% in the second quarter in revenues on levels of €680,000,000 we see ourselves absolutely confirmed and can only underpin what I said in the first quarter of our data center business.
We expect a growth rate between 2030% for the full fiscal year. Even though we run a bit ahead of that at the moment, we are respectfully looking at the marketplace. The backlog is clearly underpinning that number again, and the visibility we have there is very reliable and used to be very clear in the past. Although, let me say that, in particular, SI is more than data center. Our power utilities business in terms of new orders has been picking up by 13% in the second quarter, so did the public sector and education by 16%, commercial buildings a bit slower with plus 6%, and so the industrial vertical on the same level of plus 6%.
So we do see here momentum in the our end customer industries there. And if you wish, can go deeper. Maybe you follow-up with that question in that area if you want. So customer behavior at the moment is obviously somewhat hesitant when it comes to placement the placement of new orders, but we don’t see it muted or something. I think, we will have clear evidence, of that in the month to come, at or in May while while we speak, we see movement.
But, it’s only natural that under the given circumstances with different new and important matters, like tariffs that’s changing literally from day to day, that people are somewhat hesitant, structural demand is intact.
Alexander Virgo, Analyst, Bank of America: Yep.
Roland Busch, CEO, Siemens: Regarding the ARR, I mean, it doesn’t make me too much nervous in one quarter. There’s limited restriction due to the commerce department in The United States, in particular on EDA, and they’re in semiconductor manufacturing, whereas if you take this restriction out, they’re almost on this 40% level, maybe 7.5%. So therefore, there’s a little bit of an impact to the restrictions.
Alexander Virgo, Analyst, Bank of America: Okay. That’s very helpful. Thank you, guys.
Ralf Thomas, CFO, Siemens: You’re welcome.
Conference Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from Andre Kukhnin from UBS. Please go ahead.
Andre Kukhnin, Analyst, UBS: Yes, good morning. Thank you very much for taking my question. I wanted to ask about China as well, but maybe to dig in a bit more into the new product introductions that you made there. Could you talk a bit more about whether that spans the entire automation offering that you have in China with those 16 launches or 18 in total? You said excellent customer reaction.
Is that something that already yielded a result in the, Q2, order number? Or is that more to come, in the Q3? And sorry if this repeats, my line cut out literally as the Q and A started. But, if you could just maybe broaden that a bit to talk about the dynamics on that sort of slower decision making maybe in China that, that you mentioned as well. Where is the kind of net balance of that in in April and maybe May so far of that kind of underlying recovery that we’ve seen versus maybe some delays in customers maybe holding on to their wallets?
We’re still in advance talking strongly about the April numbers. So just wondered how that’s panned out for you. Thank you.
Ralf Thomas, CFO, Siemens: Yeah.
Roland Busch, CEO, Siemens: So, let me start this. We talked, I think, nine months ago that we are triggering the development of local products, in particular, in the value for money segment with a local for local development, including local sourcing, local local design, specification, sourcing, and inspection. And we delivered. Our team delivered. China our China team did a great job.
And now coming a little bit to the details. Out of these 18 products, this is most of them are from the automation area, but also from electrical products, 16 local development. And amongst that is, for example, our first product on our SINAMX V20, which is a redesign step. We have our F7 1,200, so it’s CLC in the entry level, which we launched there, fully localized version. We we’re working on cost reduction in our drives business, obviously, which is maybe the strongest swing we see from Innovatics.
The customer feedback is very strong. Obviously, there’s no impact on our numbers yet. And we just launched it. This is now picking up in the market. And I would say stay tuned for the next two quarters to see how that lands in our customers.
But again, they looked at it. Had a huge feedback from the market, great feedback that they are going in right direction. What is it all about? For example, for the POC stuff, it’s enhanced functionalities. For example, improved computing speed, super important also for the battery manufacturing.
It’s more motion control functions, more robust diagnostic features, but also serving multiple communication protocols while working obviously now, of course, in the pricing level here. Another one is the way how technology is used. It’s about virtual commissioning, toolkits, for application packages, so also the use interface we are focusing on, which you get when you go for local development. It’s here more for the particular needs. So, all in all, we could I could report anecdotally some breakthroughs or win backs, breakthroughs into customers we didn’t serve yet, but also win backs where we had a loss to an event and we won it back in the glass industry, semiconductor, pharma, fire, some battery swapping stations, automotive electronics.
So all in all, we are happy. I have to say this is not the end. This is the start. We keep on going, in the next generation of developing the next batch of products, while also working on redesign and taking cost out and designing local for local components into our products.
Ralf Thomas, CFO, Siemens: Yeah, Drew, let me answer your question around decision making behavioral pattern center. Mean, the point I was trying to make, when we talk to customers, we do see as it tends to be as normal under the given circumstances with such a high level of uncertainty. We, however, do not see any abrupt change in the structural demand. Therefore, we consider this to be a timing aspect. Sharing a bit of numbers for April, there is still a clear growth momentum when it comes to automation in new orders on a global level.
We have been moving clearly over and above the prior year’s level again, which is obvious. But also, you compare the first month of the quarter to the first month of the prior quarter, there’s also clearly some uptick. It’s a consistent move, but it’s not really a V shaped recovery, something. That was the point I was trying to make. The same is applicable for revenues in automation on a global basis, and I have been referring to China in particular, where we see really close clear growth momentum and a normalization that is now better reflecting with new orders than market dynamics.
We haven’t been seeing through that with that stockpiling on the distributor shelves for quite some time, and there is now clear evidence that normalization is also reflected in the fact that new orders are systematically referring back to the market dynamics and not to activities, corrections on the shelves of distributors and OEM storages. So therefore, if you wish, I can quickly touch on the different verticals. I mean, I said that and mentioned that in my presentation that automotive and machinery are, of course, touched, from the effects of saristhenolite. And chemicals is pretty much within average, I would say, it comes to what we see in the market dynamics. I would not see them in the center of being affected from our customer base perspective.
In pharma improvements in Europe and also peer growth in The US in the early months of calendar twenty five. A couple of bigger CapEx projects have been announced, as you know, while Asia is rather muted at the moment. Food and beverage tariffs with possible high impact on domestic U. S. Prices have been debated a lot in public.
I don’t want to repeat all that. Though globally, the food industry is likely not to be significantly affected. And as we are cooperating and delivering to all major players globally, we do not think that this is going to harm that sector or that market segment, this vertical, for us on a global basis even though country by country the pattern may be erratic for quite some time. Electronics and SEMIS have good momentum, in the new fiscal year for us. Tariff effects are, of course, there depending on the exemption rules, which kick in and kick out again.
So therefore, we are in a position to watch that and monitor that closely, but we don’t see any major supply chain disruption risk at the moment. And, of course, they’re very closely monitoring that because it’s of the essence. And last but not least, when it comes to aerospace and defense, defense is obviously providing many opportunities, aerospace, in particular around one of the big global players market at the moment. But, after the latest news that I got this morning, there may be incremental momentum for that particular company too. But we are not building our perspectives on both.
We just look at tangible facts and what we see. I can only underprint that again. Structural demand for this portfolio we are running is extremely relevant, in particular when it comes to the combination of digitization and automation and electrification treatment for itself. So we feel confident, otherwise we wouldn’t confirm our guidance, we can handle even though the magnitude and variety of challenges at the same time we can handle that very well. Gene Siemens is strong.
Andre Kukhnin, Analyst, UBS: Really helpful, thank you very much.
Tobias Hautzler, Head of Investor Relations, Siemens: Next question please.
Conference Operator: The next question comes from Max Yates from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Max Yates, Analyst, Morgan Stanley: Thank you very much and good morning. Ralf, could I just ask a little bit around the severance assumptions for Digital Industries and the margins? So you’ve said that margins will go up to the midpoint of the range for Q3, so around 17%. Could you just let us know how much severance you’re assuming for the third quarter? And the reason I asked this, and it’s quite specific, is just because, obviously, we know the back end or the back half of the year is going to be relatively sort of severance heavy.
I would guess you’re going to have, given the new severance guidance, a group somewhere between €250,000,000 to €300,000,000 within Digital Industries this year. So I’m just wondering how that sort of phases in the second half. And is it actually going to be possible to have fourth quarter margins up sequentially because you could have severance costs that are 200 basis points of margin higher the next quarter. To understand a little bit about how much severance do you think in DI for the full year? How will that phase?
And what are you assuming within that 17% margin assumption? Because it will help us better understand what the underlying business is doing within that guidance. Yes.
Ralf Thomas, CFO, Siemens: I’m happy to give it my best effort. But as I said, we are in negotiations, and therefore would be not prudent to call out numbers that would potentially backfire in those negotiations. But to give you a little glimpse, that’s what we expect from today’s perspective. Talking you through the severance numbers and plans overall, just assessing the status, we had a grand total in the first quarter of €83,000,000 We have been booking €90,000,000 in the second quarter for Siemens in total. The amount in the second quarter for TI was negligible, was around 10,000,000, so not really material.
I do expect some areas where we can get into a booking in the third quarter. So if you consider a mid double digit number for that next quarter, I think that’s prudent. And then as you rightfully have been assessing, the big chunk is going to materialize for DI in the last quarter, will be heavy loaded. And still, I do expect that the margin, will incrementally move upwards throughout the quarters that we see, because this is a Phase A on volume pickup. We talked about that already.
I think there is quite a bunch of data points underpinning the expectations that we have at the moment. There’s also a net positive economic equation, that’s what I said. So the combination of pricing power and productivity measures that have been already taken unfold, their impact in the quarters to come. That is also underpinning a positive development of the underlying margin. And I can only repeat what I said, we do see the margin corridor for DI that we have been guiding for, including that higher level of severance still being valid.
I was cautious about anticipating the phasing and the overall amounts being effective for the Altea acquisition in DI at the moment. It’s not about the uncertainty on topics, it’s about phasing. You do know there’s a certain dynamic in that. You book the expenses and the fees as they occur. I assume that’s going to happen soon, and will be completed then when we do have integration efforts.
That’s also quite tangible. And then when it comes to assessing the quantity and the phasing in quarters for technical aspects that are more accounting driven, like haircut and so on, this would be speculative. Therefore, we excluded that. But in a nutshell, and that’s what I was what I tried to get across, we have a clear grip around that what’s going to happen around Altea for the current fiscal year, all in impact, something between €0.30 and €0.40 on guidance for fiscal ’twenty five. And for DI, the overall impact may be in the area of around 80 basis points for the annual margin.
Maybe 90, I do not know in detail at the moment, but it will not be outrageous. So we have a grip around matters. I know this is many numbers floating around, and we are putting quite some work on your shoulders, but we wanted to share that and be fully transparent on matters that you can form an educated view. We believe that DI is on a very good trajectory. They have been doing their homework.
Unfortunately, there’s discussion and debate around therapies not making things easier for them, but we have a very clear view on what needs to be done, at which point in time, and in which area to make this business even more successful on the way forward. Therefore, for us, last sentence, it’s of utmost importance to see a clear structural demand which is there, and we are very intensively discussing also the way forward with many of our customers with, and for them, business models. Roland has been mentioning the Inova Fair. So there is a huge interest on tap, on opportunities for the customers and our customer industries on the way forward. There’s no way around stepping on productivity and tools that we can provide for making their business more resilient, and also give them a better growth trajectory on the way forward with high productivity levels.
Max Yates, Analyst, Morgan Stanley: Understood. Thank you very much.
Tobias Hautzler, Head of Investor Relations, Siemens: The
Conference Operator: next question comes from Ben Uglow from ODDOCAP Analytics. Please go ahead.
Ben Uglow, Analyst, ODDOCAP Analytics: Morning, everyone. Thank you for taking the question. Ralph, I guess I’m trying to fully understand kind of the software piece within DI. Can can you and I appreciate it’s a slightly dumb question, but what why are we seeing a high teens decline in one quarter on the EDA side? What why is it that lumpy?
And should you know, how how do we think about the EDA portion? I think it sounds as if it’s getting much better, but I guess my first question is why is it so lumpy? What is driving that that level of of quarterly volatility? And then the the kind of related question is, overall, if we simplify it, it looks like the software margins are, you know, sort of low double digit at at best. How does that margin progress from here?
And the reason why I asked the question is you’ve been consistent in talking about a gradual ramp in the overall margin, the so called belly of the fish. And there are views out there in the market that suddenly we’re gonna be seeing 30% margins from Siemens software next year. So from where we are today, which looks like a pretty weak software margin, how should that sequentially evolve? Thank you.
Ralf Thomas, CFO, Siemens: Thanks, Ben. Obviously, a topic that we are dealing deeply time and again, and let’s put it into a nutshell. The lumpiness of the EDA business is something we don’t have impact on. We have been sharing as much as we could last year in third quarter. I mean, there was a high a really high accumulation item, I saw that before, of large scale growth projects, and then orders hitting our books that have been converted into revenues to a large extent.
Therefore, we had an extraordinary strong quarterback then. So therefore, the guidance I gave for the third quarter current fiscal year is pretty much driven to a large extent by the extraordinary third quarter and prior year. Nevertheless, the third quarter current fiscal doesn’t have a strong EDA component from today’s perspective. That may change. Sometimes things develop faster, but given that what I’ve said before about decision making processes and customers at the moment, not only in that field, but in general, it feels like it takes rather a bit longer than faster, and therefore I’m not overoptimistically looking into an improvement of the third quarter.
We have quite a firm grip around upcoming orders on the EDA side for the fourth quarter. We have a strong funnel, and also the partners we are dealing with there, we have historical evidence how they are doing, and also you have a good understanding of their business needs. So the likelihood that, there will be a strong EVA quarter, if I may put it that way, the fourth quarter is pretty high. There’s never any guarantee, obviously. We do our best to get seasonality out, but I stick to that, what I always say, never push a customer.
We follow the algorithm, whether it’s around SARS transitioning or whether it’s around salesmen or flashlights and all this. You are well advised to listen carefully to your customers, and that’s what we try to do. And we also have been, I think, talking a lot about the last four of them, made a meaningful start into the fifteen year. So therefore, in a nutshell, I tend to regret that we don’t have impact on that matter, but we try to be as transparent as possible, but maybe also for forming your own views on matters taking the last third quarter’s accumulation of large orders in license big license deals, both PLN and also on the EDA side. That I think is important.
And I personally try to form my own opinion by looking into rolling four quarters perspective or something like that, and this is evening out lots of those chunky of those lumpiness. So, margin progress, too early to talk numbers. You know that, Ben, we said that we are going to share with you once we have been transitioning the belly is done of the future, I guess you may say that. We see still very encouraging numbers, Roland shared many of them when it comes to new customers, it comes to a portion of cloud based deals that we get. All that is pointing into the right direction, concluding on the exit level of margin too early today.
But what we see is the momentum is there, and I would like to repeat and underpin what I said before. Even if the FISH was longer than expected, this is rather an opportunity than a risk, because that means that we are winning in the sweet spot of a market where we haven’t been that successful in the past, many small and medium customers, new entrances, and expanding our footprint there will be extremely beneficial in the mid and long term. That’s what we are convinced of. That’s what we get as a response for our customers. And don’t underestimate the opportunity.
Being aligned in getting feedback of so many customers is also helping us better understanding the tomorrow’s needs and, their perspectives with their own businesses. We highly appreciate that, and, we will capitalize on it. But too early to call out the exit profitability. We will share with you once we come to that bridge.
Tobias Hautzler, Head of Investor Relations, Siemens: Next question, please.
Conference Operator: The next question comes from James Moore from Redburn Atlantic. Please go ahead.
Alexander Virgo, Analyst, Bank of America: Yes. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for the time. I wondered if I could circle back on a few topics. On automation with, what, 2.8 of orders or so, 2.9 of sales, we were doing 3,000,000,000 a quarter back in 2019. And one might imagine a low double digit cumulative price since then and with twenty year rolling volume growth at maybe two plus a year, one would anticipate that true underlying equilibrium demand should be meaningfully above that kind of level.
Do do you share that view? And and would
Ralf Thomas, CFO, Siemens: you be
Alexander Virgo, Analyst, Bank of America: able to sort of quantify what you think true underlying equilibrium demand looks like once we get, if ever, past the noise of tariffs and the likes? And if I could just follow-up. On currency, you mentioned a tailwind in the first half and a headwind in the second. Any chance you could quantify that on the margin, Ralph, with respect to the group and the divisions where it’s most pertinent?
Ralf Thomas, CFO, Siemens: Thank you, James. And let me start with the exchange rate. I think, I mean, you are familiar with our hedging schemes and how we do that. I don’t want to bore you with repeating all that, So everything we can do, we can redo that, of course. We are also using all digital means, meanwhile, to come up with a net position to be hedged ultimately.
So all that is giving me some comfort that we are not missing any buzz in that regard. The exchange rate is what it is at the moment. We do see fairly high volatility. I don’t need to share with you anyway. And the biggest risk, if you will, there is not the margin development of the businesses, but rather the translation effects.
I mean, if and when it came to extremes, and the U. S. Dollar would weaken much further, That has then tremendous impact on inflationary effects for our EPS that could easily go into the low triple digit millions. Have a lot of respect for that, but I’m still quite confident that we can handle even that as we speak. And there’s no opportunity to get immunity against translation effects, we know that, so therefore we just respectfully watch that.
So that’s rather the area of concern when it comes to the impact on the single businesses. I mean, you do know we have a strong showing in our SI business in The U. S. The EI business has a strong focus in Europe and also in China. We have room to improve in automation businesses when it comes to discrete in The U.
S. So it may also be beneficial in certain scenarios for us, but there opportunities winning in the market space there. But I don’t want to speculate on that, to be honest. I will share with you, from today’s perspective, I don’t see any material impact on the margin development for the full fiscal year for industrial business grand total. It may vary, as we saw that with SI in the coming quarter or in the second quarter with 40 basis points.
All the others were not materially affected in that quarter, and we’ll share with you as we go along. When it comes to automation, I can fully understand your math, yeah, it’s hard to capture pricing effects and inflation over a longer period of time because there’s also other effects having impact on the discounting in certain areas, initiatives that you launch, to be present at certain points in time in certain marketplaces. But I agree with you. There’s still some potential to catch up on per unit basis, if you will, in the market on the way forward. We have a lot of respect for our competitors, obviously, and we have been launching, for example, those 16 plus two products in China, which we don’t see the impact yet in our numbers, obviously.
I mean, this was just a couple of weeks back. It would be the need to expect a huge material impact on new orders and KPIs along with that. But there is momentum that we can unfold. The current scenario around tariffs is not encouraging decision making processes. I mentioned that a couple of times.
So therefore, I believe it’s still a fair assumption that we take that there is incremental momentum possible, that may even exceed what we saw once things are straightened out and we have clarity on the way forward. This will then unleash that potential that is stalled at the moment, and it’s about being there and available for our customers at that very moment, and this is what we are going to be.
Roland Busch, CEO, Siemens: Maybe on a global view on the automation market. You know this roller coaster which was triggered by COVID and the like, and today the global market for automation, in ’twenty three it was somehow a peak, which was, some peak, according to our market estimations, 87,000,000,000. And then this will not, this will come back to the same level in 2026. So there, and there are two years in between. If you take the long term, it’s continuous trend, and there’s this up and down in the middle.
If you average it out, we see a growth rate of something between 45%. This is globally. If you go deeper now in certain level of countries, or a process that is discrete, you might have a little bit of a different picture. But it’s basically a recovery to these peak levels, which we saw artificially though within two years. Thought messages, the automation trend is intact.
We will see more and more automation, more and more faster with more automation, for very obvious reasons. Resilience requires building new plans, smaller plans, you don’t just leverage, and you want to automate them even more. It’s tough, for example, to some customers like Foxconn, they say we go all in as automated as possible, and for very good reasons. And so therefore, this is an intact trend, and you have to look through this roller coaster, which I always call it for the next couple of years.
Alexander Virgo, Analyst, Bank of America: That’s really helpful. Thank you.
Tobias Hautzler, Head of Investor Relations, Siemens: Next question, please.
Conference Operator: The next question comes from Jonathan Mountsie from BNP Paribas. Please go ahead.
Jonathan Mountsie, Analyst, BNP Paribas: Maybe on Dotmatics, obviously, well, the deal surprised me at least somewhat in terms of its nature. Just want to understand better the scale of your ambition here. I think this is obviously the first time we’ve had you live since the deal was announced, and perhaps you just tell us a bit more. Is it likely to be a stand alone deal sufficient for your ambitions in the areas of drug discovery? It’s just that I know with the, the previous deals that you’ve done in PLM and EDA, after you completed those deals, there were a number of bolt ons that kind of bulked out the offer, developed it further.
Now that we’ve moved into what I would say is a a slightly different area, I realize it can be integrated through the software businesses, but I think it’s a different vertical. Yeah. What what’s the scope of the ambition there? We like to see a lot of capital allocated to more software around, this area that Domainics plays in.
Roland Busch, CEO, Siemens: So there’s a quite obvious observation that, whereas ITA sits in the core core of our software simulation business, DOPMALX was sitting a little bit on the side. This is the reason why we say, yeah, with this acquisition, we are opening also a newly totally addressed market of €11,000,000,000 which is particularly focused on life science and in other markets. And here in the design phase, so drug discovery phase. So it’s all about simulation molecules, and tracking them. These are authorization tools which we have, because you have to have a very, very strict process to follow-up once you discover a molecule, then you have to have a very strict handover to the production process in order to fulfill all these requirements, which is super relevant.
And this is the reason why also the data backbone of this whole drug discovery path that you have is super relevant. Realismatic is super innovative solution that you’re working on. So the pattern which I was describing, which comes from the design phase, we know how that goes. You have this deep center, you have an underlying data platform, you have the design platform on top, and you keep that going, because then you push the data from your design, you build material, the like, to the manufacturing space, which allows you to closely cycle it to be fast and much more efficient. And that’s, guess what, that’s the same principle, yet the drug discovery market is years back, so we can really catch up.
And to your point, it’s quite obvious that once we are heading to that space, we have two dimensions. One is creating synergies, we have customer access, and we have synergies on the go to market in our software space, and we can leverage that. But it’s obvious that we would also open the opportunity for other plug ins, so it’s more add on acquisitions, in order to leverage this now newly total addressable market for Siemens. And 11,000,000,000 is sizable. This is quite a bit.
Remember that the total market of Siemens is serving 600,000,000, though one individual space which we are opening now is substantial opportunities. Last point, even if we would not add other, let’s say, medium or larger acquisitions in that space, the math still works. We have a good business case behind, we have synergies, we see how we can leverage it, we know how to do it, how to integrate software, how to bring it in our go to market. So therefore, the M and A, that decision was based on a standalone decision for acquiring DocMatics integrated in credit planning.
Andre Kukhnin, Analyst, UBS: Thank you.
Tobias Hautzler, Head of Investor Relations, Siemens: We will take one more
Conference Operator: Today’s last question is from Martin Wiecki from Citi.
Martin Wiecki, Analyst, Citi: It’s Martin from Citi. Just a question coming back on software. And I appreciate the Altair deal has only been closed for a few weeks. But could you give us any industry examples where you might already be getting some of the revenue synergies from that deal even in terms of just the customer conversations? I mean, obviously, integrating software into your broader portfolio with simulation and AI, it seems to be a sort of key part of your strategy.
I saw some announcements at the automate trade fair a few days ago, but just to get some early examples of how customers are seeing your increased offering with that deal. Thank you.
Roland Busch, CEO, Siemens: So obviously, it’s too early to discuss those in March, so it’s too early to report really on CARFAX or Tillis that you can disclose. So what I can share with you is we see many customers who have Altair and our software suite in place next to each other. And obviously for them it’s meaningful to say, how would that integrate now? Are we going faster? And you see customers who say, we have your portfolio, but you’re missing out on the simulation part, which is for mechanics and electrodynamics, and they’re super excited now to say, let’s hook up in a seamless way Altea.
So, and the basic idea of saying we are now completing our portfolio to get one integrated simulation portfolio out of one hand. Same philosophy, we are open, are allowed to integrate other softwares compared to our competitors that go from a closed app, which we don’t believe in. We appreciate that, and with that we see super, super positive feedback. The trade fair was exciting. So was, and this is another dimension.
Customers is one aspect, but if you look at the top of the ITR people, they see the benefit, too. They are also very positive in the way how we move forward, and they can be part of a bigger picture. So, all in all, what we anticipated in that field is meeting or even exceeding the expectations, And we hope that we can soon also report on wins, customer wins, and on the top and bottom line. Great, thank you very much. Thanks
Tobias Hautzler, Head of Investor Relations, Siemens: a lot to everyone for participating today. As always, the team and I will be available for further questions. We are looking forward to our data set for later today, and meeting many of you, either virtually or in person on our roadshows over the upcoming weeks. Have a wonderful day and goodbye.
Conference Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, that will conclude today’s conference call, and you may disconnect your telephone. Thank you for joining, and have a pleasant day. Goodbye.
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